Banners Broker Scam Update
After refer your post I take in why banner broker site got huge scammed. In any case, investors properly understand…
UPDATE 28/2/2013: Just days ago, BannersBroker announced the reopening of their Indian office in Goa after ‘the conclusion of a police investigation’. Once again, they have been caught lying. Click here to read the full court order, which explicitly states that the company’s accounts are frozen, and their assets remain in police custody.
UPDATE 29/1/2013: I have just posted a full Q&A session with Terry Stern, the International Public Relations Director representing Banners Broker.
BREAKING NEWS 31/12: Banners Broker’s Goa office has been raided and shut down by the police. The company has been charged under IPC section 4, 5 and 6 of the PCMC (banning) act 1978, 406 and 420. Full announcement here.
UPDATE 4/1: Amid growing speculation over the future of Banners Broker India, CEO Chris Smith has cancelled the company’s ‘World Tour’ that was originally planned to reach Kolkata in February. Smith insisted that Banners Broker is ‘fine’ during his Friday conference call. He blamed ‘a little mischief’ from an ex-employee for the criminal charges brought against the company. The investigation is still ongoing, and the Banners Broker Goan office remains closed. More information here.
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In October, I made a post about Banners Broker being a suspected ponzi scheme. To say that the post has gone viral would be a massive understatement. It is currently drawing several thousand hits per day, with 357 comments and counting.
My Hate Mail has also been buzzing left, right and center.
While that initial post was designed to raise awareness of the scam, critics have said – quite rightly – that it doesn’t offer enough evidence to say, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the program is a ponzi scheme.
Personally, I wasn’t expecting there to even be a debate. It’s pretty obvious what Banners Broker is.
But perhaps I am guilty of overlooking the fact that most people who invest in Banners Broker have no exposure to the real online advertising industry. It is not so obvious without that first-hand experience.
I’ve decided to release this second post to provide a more cohesive look at why Banners Broker stinks, and how we can make such assumptions about it being a ponzi scheme without a single piece of ‘definitive’ proof.
If you haven’t read the first Banners Broker Scam article, I suggest you start there.
Banners Broker in the Media
Before I get in to the evidence and lies, I want to address a common misconception that it is only small-time bloggers who are posting negatively about Banners Broker.
The BB apologists seem intent on tarring us all as sad-acts who have nothing better to do than watch and wait for a good thing’s demise.
I prefer to call it an investment in the public interest. Many people are going to be harmed by the collapse of Banners Broker, and it is not just bloggers who are taking notice.
The Irish media has devoured the fanciful business model after leaders Rajiv Dixit, Chris Smith and co rolled in to town for a gala last month.
Here’s some of the press coverage:
The next time Banners Broker tells you that the negative criticism comes from ‘bloggers with hate agendas’, feel free to ask whether they consider the Sunday World (a major Irish red-top with over 1 million readers per week) in that same category.
The History of Banners Broker
The Banners Broker you see before you today, the alleged worldwide advertising force, is quite a radical leap from the Banners Broker that was announced to the HYIP scene in 2010. Here’s Kul Josun explaining the origins of the program in a very old and very revealing video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1e5KGw87QI
“Banners Broker: Welcome to the worlds first cycler doubler, where you can double your money without signing up one person. Join for free and change your future today.”
To all the commenters in the last post who asked for a definitive piece of evidence that Banners Broker is a ponzi scam, this might as well be it. Upon launching, they branded themselves to the notorious HYIP community as the world’s first ‘straightline’ cycler doubler.
What this means is that your payouts come from within the system (cycled) directly from sign-ups below you (a straight line).
Here’s a fun task for you:
Go to Google, and search “straightline cycler doubler“.
Here you will find a revealing look in to the world of Banners Broker before the modern narrative of an online advertising network.
Look at the early press releases, look at the very first forum posts, look at the YouTube videos. Tell me it doesn’t stink.
Now tell me why this company should be considered in the same breath as real online ad companies.
Why did Banners Broker brand themselves as a moneymaking system to the HYIP community when the nature of their alleged business model (if it were true) would be more fitting on TechCrunch?
“Banners Broker Uncovers Industry Shaking Algorithm; Banner Ads Never to be the Same Again!” (Yeah, I never saw that headline either.)
The answer is because Banners Broker’s roots are tied to the shadiest realms of HYIP. Recycled cash is the real source of their revenues, not an industry-changing algorithm in the online advertising space. And that’s why Banners Broker pitched their company directly to the kind of individuals who would be looking to invest in it: amateur investors a few small worlds away from Silicon Valley.
To put it simply: they know the hand that feeds them.
And it is not advertisers.
My favourite part of this video is Kul laying the smack down on other HYIP programs, “The hype and maths don’t work. Period.” And yet, he brags…
Seems like a legitimate online advertising company!
Seriously people, these opportunities do not exist legally. Not in this world or the next.
Anybody who tries to convince you of such BS should be red-flagged and banished from business conversation for the rest of his days.
Before you invest in the next get-rich-quick program (or Banners Broker if you are new to the idea), consider that the world’s greatest investor – Warren Buffett – has written his name in to history by producing an average annual return of just over 20%. A staggering feat in the investment arena.
Now ask why Warren Buffett isn’t investing in the ‘stock’ of Banners Broker panels, a program that the apologists claim can deliver an upwards annual return of 300%.
The answer is because Warren Buffett prefers to work with real companies, not smiley faced Primark suits fresh off the back of a ‘World Tour’ lorry.
Chris Smith… The Man, The Myth, the Stock Photo
In the video above, you will notice that it introduces Chris Smith as the mathematical genius behind Banners Broker. Except that isn’t the same Chris Smith who can be found travelling the world today.
In fact, that Chris Smith is a stock photo that can be purchased for £18.00, which was evidently too much for “We Are Cash Rich” Banners Broker as they have cropped it above the watermark:
Small details, guys.
I hate to point out the sheer unprofessionalism of this company by resorting to stock photo CEOs, but it goes a long way to understanding the bigger picture. We are dealing in smoke and mirrors.
Nothing is ever what it seems with Banners Broker.
“In Defence of Banners Broker…”
You may have seen this article, Debunking the Scam, that attempts to explain – in Clickbank sales letter form – ‘how the Banners Broker model works’. It has become the Bible of Cult BB, a source that is supposed to deflect all criticism. There’s just one problem: it’s a steaming pile of you know what…
Let’s look at some of the points raised:
From Debunking the Scam
So the product of Banners Broker is: Advertising Impressions.
The end user – the advertiser, who never sees or hears of Banners Broker, gets ad space that hosts his advertising, and visitors to the various websites where that ad is displayed, see that ad.
There’s the product.
Hold on, hold on. WHAT? This is one of the stupidest defence arguments I’ve ever heard.
The advertiser never sees or hears of Banners Broker?!
That’s a pretty dumb theory considering an advertiser needs to sign up through BannersBroker.com before he can use the advertising system. Or is that just there for show?
The purpose of Banners Broker is to act as the middleman and broker ad impressions. We already know that Banners Broker gains access to publisher websites by brokering through Clicksor as a reseller (see this description).
Note here, “Selling traffic has not been this easy before. Become a Clicksor authorized reseller now and experience the simplicity in selling traffic to your advertisers.”
Clicksor provides the publishers. It’s up to Banners Broker to provide the advertisers, which is the whole god damn point of reselling. The fruitcase above has clearly not understood this when he comes out with tripe such as “the advertiser never sees or hears of Banners Broker“.
I mean, come on dude. Does the following link mean nothing to you?
http://bannersbroker.com/main/advertiser
I suppose the advertiser has to sign up wearing a blindfold then?
Or is – as I somehow suspect – the argument designed to distract our attention from the fact that not a single Banners Broker advertiser is known to exist?
Moving on to his next crazy suggestion…
From Debunking the Scam
Banners Broker is just what it says – a broker in the banner advertising field. A unique broker – unique in that no one else does what they do.
What’s a broker? The dictionary says: “a broker is a person who buys and sells goods or assets for others.”
Banners Broker “brokers” in a slightly different way than has been done before on line… here’s an overview:
There is a network of websites and advertising companies that comprise what is called the “Blind Network”(Click here for definition) (an Internet ad industry term).
Note, that I didn’t say – Banners Broker operates within a Blind Network.
They operate within T-H-E Blind Network.The same Blind Network that millions of advertisers and publishers already operate within.
The same Blind Network that successfully generates BILLIONS of Dollars of revenue every year.
This isn’t something invented by someone to trick you – it’s how the on-line advertising industry works – (so how can these so called “insiders” be inside anything but their own rear ends?)
Let me keep this short and sweet. There is no such thing as ‘THE Blind Network’.
If ‘THE Blind Network’ is real, and Banners Broker operates within ‘THE Blind Network’, who else operates in ‘THE Blind Network’? What is ‘THE Blind Network’?
And if Banners Broker is a pawn in somebody else’s ‘THE Blind Network’, what makes their business model so special that it can’t be replicated by a competitor? Ever heard of the law of competition? Unless Banners Broker took out a patent on banners, we need to have a serious adult discussion.
If we are to believe the margins – eye-watering as they are – why isn’t every single broker in the world rushing to be a part of THE Blind Network?
Answer: There is no such thing.
This idiot then goes on to contradict himself by saying that Banners Broker operates in the same Blind Network as millions of other advertisers and publishers.
So what is its competitive advantage?!
Again, no mention of what this Blind Network actually is, or who runs it… Who needs details, right?
Note on the author: Seriously, who hyphenates “on-line“? Can we really trust that this guy has departed the twentieth century? Maybe the Millenium Bug struck after all.
In a recent development, Banners Broker has debunked any suggestion that it is ‘THE Blind Network’.
The Blind network is NOT created/nor owned by BB, but controlled by 10 other brokers, including Google.
I’m sorry, but this explanation is also a pile of steaming BS. Are we to believe that Banners Broker is brokering ad sales through Google, now? Complete rubbish. Google does not need a company like Banners Broker. It has its own properties to handle publishers and advertisers: AdSense and AdWords. There is no ‘broker’ middleman.
The Choice Network… Now Comes Served With Ads (Or Does It?!)
A key point in my first post on Banners Broker was that the so-called Choice Network was no more than a damp fraudulent squib. The websites in the network clearly belonged to Banners Broker, and none of them had advertisements from legitimate companies.
Well, there must be pigs flying in the sky, because the BB apologists are telling me that the Choice Network is now fully operational, and filled with real ads from real companies.
I took a few minutes to verify their claims, and sure enough, ads from reputable companies are now displaying:
Hold on, though. Before you get excited, we should know better than to take what Banners Broker says or does at face value.
Is this advertising campaign really running through the Banners Broker Choice Network?
No, it’s not.
Banners Broker is serving these ads from ox-d.bannersbroker.com, which can be IP traced to New York City where the server is owned by OpenX Technologies:
OpenX is a powerful ad exchange that offers publishers the chance to sell their own inventory, or broker through the OpenX Market where a number of renowned brands can pick up the scraps. Brands like… WillHill.
It’s debatable whether Banners Broker invested in the Enterprise Edition or the Free Version (for hobbyists), but what certainly isn’t debatable is the fact that these ads you see on the Choice Network do not come from advertisers signing up to BannersBroker.com.
They are sourced from the OpenX Market, probably as remnant traffic.
You could sign up to the same service today and have your very own ‘Choice Network’ up and running in hours.
One thing is for certain, you will soon see that actually, yes, it is possible NOT to make money with the Banners Broker system. The real one, anyway. These ads produce only an industry standard return, nothing like what would be required to turn a bunch of third party investors in to millionaires.
So, what are we to make of all those months where the Choice Network was stuck in ‘Test Mode’? I guess that’s how long it took BB’s in-house programmers to configure OpenX across their portfolio of dud sites.
Changing the face of the online advertising industry?
Yeah, that might take a while.
Note: Thanks to the helpful peeps over at RealScam for piecing together this latest lie. They’ve been tearing the scheme apart with much greater dedication than myself!
Once again, we could forgive the lies surrounding the Choice Network if the flagship Blind Network delivered on its promises. But it doesn’t. And one begins to question whether it ever will…
An Update on My Experience as a Blind Network Advertiser
How many BB investors have actually advertised on the Banners Broker Blind Network? I know a lot of them like to talk about it, as if it’s some kind of revolutionary invention.
But have they actually tried it?
I have.
In my first post, I mentioned how I had setup a campaign on the Blind Network. 7 weeks later, I decided to login and see how my campaign had performed. Boy, what a disappointment.
After negotiating the new security gateway…
(Seriously, who asks for FIVE security questions? Even my bank only needs two. I guess they’re harvesting security answers as well as passports these days…)
I finally reached the reporting section for my test campaign…
Yes, in over 7 weeks of running a broadly targeted campaign on the Blind Network (one category in the UK), I have received a grant total of 866 impressions! That’s a total advertiser spend of just over $0.86 in 7 weeks.
If Banners Broker can’t send 1000 impressions of traffic to a UK campaign in 7 weeks, how in the name of Lucifer’s balls is it able to generate hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue?
Tell me, apologists! How does an advertiser spend millions of dollars on this platform when I can’t even spend ONE dollar in 7 weeks?
What you see above is the Banners Broker’s take on a ‘campaign report’.
So, let’s say I’m a professional media buyer.
Where do I find my breakdown of performance by creative? By channel? By hour? Where do I exclude targets (a damn near critical option for blind networks)?
Banners Broker tells the world that it is paying millions of dollars to its affiliates. Maybe that is the case. But the money is damn sure not coming from advertisers. I beg anybody to test this joke of a system and tell me otherwise.
Banners Broker and Clicksor
If we crawl through the heaps of misinformation on how Banners Broker actually serves its banners, it becomes clear that the company is brokering through Clicksor (a broker within a broker, if you will).
Clicksor is a legitimate company that I have worked with in the past. I’m sorry for sullying their names in the same sentence as Banners Broker, but we have to point out some crucial information:
In the latest 2011 data, Clicksor’s parent company Yesup Ecommerce Solutions Inc posted annual revenue of $17.5 Million dollars.
And yet Banners Broker claims to have paid out over $100 Million dollars, by brokering through Clicksor.
HOW?
Why is Banners Broker’s $100 Million in affiliate payouts not reflected in Clicksor’s accounts? They are receiving the same advertiser trade and they are further up the chain.
We would have to assume that Banners Broker is the only company working with Clicksor, and that Clicksor is the only part of Yesup producing revenue, and even then the maximum revenue pales in significance to what Banners Broker claims to be paying out to its affiliates. The markup must be astro-bloody-nomical.
It’s an economical impossibility.
Which is why Banners Broker has acted quickly to change its story.
David Hooker, BB’s latest snake-oil man, addressed this issue directly at the recent Irish gala.
“His presentation consisted of filling us in completely on how the Blind Network works and how it has 10 major Brokers running it. How Banners Broker linked up with the smaller of these Brokers (Finch: He stresses ‘smaller’ for good reason. He knows the previous numbers and ‘direct relationship’ clearly identified their model as a fraud)) and how now one of the largest Brokers has given green light to link with them. Chris later said that the linking up of software is almost complete and they will soon be good to go.”
If you know anything about advertising through a blind network, this is pretty hilarious.
What advertiser in his right mind is going to work with a broker that re-brokers through any 1 of 10 different networks? Why would the advertiser not just go direct to his broker of choice for half the price… and, screw it, some actual control over his ads?
It’s like me saying, “I want you to give me £1 for an ice cream that we both know you can buy for 50p. Except, I’m not even going to let you decide which ice cream you have. I’ll take that extra 50p and pick whichever of the 10 vans I want to buy it from (even though you may have a preference!). Then I’ll go to a bunch of investors and pitch them my breakthrough idea on the basis that brokering ice cream is the “next big thing” and billions are made every year by doing so. How about we ask for £3000 for the Black Cone Package – ‘Double your Cornettos, Magnums, and Twisters in a month!’ Yeah, pop-business. The proles will love that.“
There’s a problem with the model. People aren’t stupid! They know where they can get their ice cream for 50p, and they are not going to pay you double for less choice and poorer service. The same applies to the Banners Broker business model. Advertisers are not stupid. They are not going to pay Rajiv Dixit and Chris Smith more money in return for less ads and less control over where they appear.
In any case, who are these ’10 major brokers’ that Banners Broker has suddenly started working with? Why no names?
Tell us David, has Clicksor become the “smaller of these brokers” because you’ve been found out – publicly – by claiming to send your traffic through a network whose parent company reports only a tiny fraction of your own claimed revenues? I guess if you announce “10 major brokers” (conveniently without naming them), we can’t look in to their much more transparent workings and directly shoot your bullshit down for what it is.
It’s pretty obvious, isn’t it?
This is a lie aimed squarely at the bullet holes shot in the previous lie.
Note: We know that Banners Broker has been brokering solely through Clicksor because publisher.bannersbroker.com can be IP traced directly to a Clicksor server. Good luck split testing that with your 10 other brokers!
“Get Paid by Turtle Mail“
When working with reputable companies, you expect to also deal with reputable banks.
When working with Banners Broker, that is not the case.
Withdrawal requests are handled in one of three ways:
- The pre-paid BB card
- Solid Trust Pay (STP)
- Payza
The withdrawal methods vary from country to country, but it’s immediately clear that accessing your funds is not going to be as easy as it should be with a world renowned advertising company. There are no cheques, no direct deposit, not even a PayPal option!
With all due respect to Solid Trust Pay and Payza, their brands are known for dealing with the type of Internet businesses that can’t get approved anywhere else. They are staples of the HYIP community. And as for the pre-paid BB card (for some investors, their only option), this is the equivalent to being paid in cash.
You might as well be receiving an iTunes gift card.
Hey, give it 3 months and that will probably be the only payment option left.
There is absolutely no excuse for:
Withdrawal methods that require the user to jump through hoops with notarised ID before he can get his money.
Taking weeks, sometimes months, to process the bloody transactions in the first place. All the while charging the user on time every time for admin processing fees and traffic packs.
Banners Broker will take your money, but pay you only when they feel like it.
Which soon will be never.
They claim that their payouts are running smoothly with minimal backlog. A quick search of the Internet and that is clearly not the case. Selective payments rule the day.
The Tax Conundrum
A wise man once said, “The only thing certain in life is death and taxes.”
All money earned through Banners Broker is taxable, even the money that you haven’t yet withdrawn. Yes, your total account balance would be considered a form of stock in the eyes of the exchequer.
This leads to the rather awkward situation where Banners Broker investors need to be paying tax on income that they haven’t yet received. Failure to do so is in clear breach of the law (I’m referring to the UK, you will need to research this if you live elsewhere).
Let’s get this straight…
You are liable to pay tax on ALL of your “My Total Earnings” minus the costs accrued from account fees and buying traffic packs.
Your account might look like this:
Total Earnings: £15,000
Withdrawals So Far: £2,000
Invested in to the System (Total Costs): £3,000Total Earnings – Total Costs = Taxable Profits
£15,000 – £3,000 = £12,000Basic Tax Rate is 20%
(£12,000 x 0.20) = £2400 now due in tax.
So let’s say you have managed to withdraw £2000 from Banners Broker. You now need to pay the taxman £2400. Doesn’t sound like such a good investment, does it?
You are at a loss.
It’s not going to get better either! The Banners Broker system is designed to exponentially increase your My Total Earnings while allowing you to withdraw only a small fraction of your funds. It’s a bait ploy. But fatally, it assumes that you are the kind of person who doesn’t bother paying tax.
Well, do you?
With the January 31st deadline for self-assessment rapidly approaching, there are a lot of Banners Broker investors that are now required by law to hand ALL of their profits to the taxman while waiting for Banners Broker to pay the rest of their earnings.
Will that happen? Of course not.
If you don’t care about being involved in a ponzi scheme, I highly doubt you care about paying your taxes. But you should start thinking about it.
Lies, Lies, and More Lies
Troy Dooly recently posted an article on MLM Helpdesk writing off Banners Broker as a ponzi scheme. Here’s how Banners Broker chose to deflect the criticism:
Yes, by falsely claiming that the article was written in an attempt to extort money in return for deletion.
Talk about a stroke of twisted genius. I hope Troy sues.
Here’s more from David Hooker on the subject of us pesky bloggers speaking critically of Banners Broker:
“He also talked about how he tackled the bloggers that were writing negative stuff. One was a friend of his and wanted Banners Broker to pay him £900 to correct his negative story!!!!
Another one, when offered the chance to come to BB International to see for himself what Banners Broker does, declined, and said he was broke!”
Hooker wisely opts not to name any names. If he did, he’d be sued to Kingdom Come.
This is the current tactic for deflecting criticism: accuse the blogger of trying to extort money. Well, if I hear even the slightest whisper that this article is written to extort money, I’ll be unleashing a lawyer so far up David Hooker’s arse that his next rousing presentation is delivered directly to a judge.
I guess rejecting all criticism as an attempt at extortion sums up the state of mind at Banners Broker HQ perfectly. What are they scared of in there?
Common Misconceptions
Let’s play some FAQ with the common responses from BB apologists. If you read the comments from the last post, you’ll already be familiar with the holding patterns and the dumbfounded logic.
I’m making XXXX/month from Banners Broker. It’s negative people like you who will never make money online! I’ve quit my job already!
I’ve said it so many times that my fingers are starting to resent the same keyboard bashing:
The fact that you have made some money from Banners Broker does not mean that it is anything less than a ponzi scheme. It just means that you are luckier than the poor suckers further down the food chain.
Important! The high balance in your account does not mean that the money is yours. It is text on a screen. A promise in a hurricane. The money is only yours when it lands in your bank account and for most people, this is the where the frustration begins.
Money withdrawal times are increasing. Payout methods are decreasing. Excuses are growing more and more ridiculous by the day.
Just because a page in cyberspace says that you have $17,000 waiting for you on the other side of the rainbow, that does not make it so. Weigh up how much money you have invested versus how much you have withdrawn. Now do an honest appraisal of the situation: “Have I really made money here? Or have I inherited a gigantic stack of IOUs?”
But I’ve met Chris Smith and Rajiv Dixit in person! A scammer would never show his face in person.
If you believe this, God help your wallet for it is ripeth to be plucked.
History is littered with ponzi schemers that travelled the world to sweet talk their prey. Take a look at Bernie Madoff. He hardly lived in the closet.
Why would a ponzi scheme go on a World Tour if it wasn’t credible?
Good question.
Let me rephrase it.
If Banners Broker is truly about a revolutionary advancement in the online advertising industry, why is the company touring for investors instead of advertisers?
It is advertisers who make the BB world spin round.
They are the ‘alleged’ heart of the business, the rainmakers if you will.
So why is there no evidence that a single Banners Broker advertiser exists? Why does Banners Broker spend its days trawling the world for fifty buck investors when its the big brand advertisers that pay the bills?
This company cannot survive without recruiting a large number of the most reckless advertisers under the sun (who also conveniently have the most extravagant budgets).
How do they recruit these elusive, nonchalant big-spenders (who don’t care which of the 10 networks you throw their ads on for twice the price)?
It’s certainly not by going on tour at advertising trade shows, or reputable conferences, or by offering a single interview to a reputable trade journal.
No, no.
The CEO of Banners Broker prefers to spend his time sharking across the dancefloor at Irish galas, eyeing up the next Primark suit for a Yellow Panel bonanza.
Sourced: http://www.realscam.com/f8/banners-broker-hyip-ponzi-scam-897/index123.html
He calls it networking. I call it a waste of bloody time for somebody who *allegedly* has much bigger fish to fry.
You don’t find Zuckerberg skirting for fifty bucks on the outskirts of Mumbai.
How can it be a ponzi? It doesn’t require referrals. I can make money without referring a single soul!
Practically every big player in Banners Broker is sitting on a mountain of referrals. It is the secret sauce behind their incomes.
True, you don’t have to refer people to join the program. But at this stage in the game, you are going nowhere fast if you choose to sit still, waiting for your panels to progress. This program is designed in such a way that dragging in more investors is the safest way to guarantee your own investment.
If you think the program can survive without referrals, you might want to consider this latest nugget from the Banners Broker blog:
“BB will be around as long as affiliates want to remain a part of the program”
Freud must be smiling in his grave.
Banners Broker is approved by MasterCard. Do you really think MasterCard would approve a ponzi scheme to use their cards?
This is such a nasty little lie that Banners Broker has been forced to tell its affiliates that, actually, there is no approval from Mastercard, and indeed no backing whatsoever. Banners Broker buys its pre-paid Mastercards from Vector, an independent reseller.
If you think there is a legitimate relationship between MasterCard and Banners Broker, I would advise that you keep it to yourself. Banners Broker are now so hypersensitive about this damaging lie that they are terminating the accounts of users who imply any such relationship exists.
If it was really a scam, it would have collapsed already.
There are some ponzi schemes that have lasted 20 years and there are others that have crashed and burned in 20 days.
If you believe that size or longevity defines a ponzi, let me assure you: it doesn’t.
It only defines how memorable the ultimate collapse will be.
In Summary: What is Really Happening?
For those of you who don’t have the time or attention to read all of the above, here is the bullet point breakdown of what is currently happening with Banners Broker, and what you can expect to happen over the coming months.
Your Panel Movements Will Grind to a Halt – Thousands of BB members are already reporting that their panels have been static for days, and that they have been slowing over the last few weeks. There’s a very simple explanation for this. Banners Broker doesn’t have the cashflow to pay what it owes, or to deliver the returns that it is promising you. Certainly not over the Christmas period where members are rushing to withdraw. Your panels are going to move slowly probably for the rest of Banners Broker’s very short-lived existence.
Withdrawals Will Continue to Take Forever – It’s not going to get better. The Banners Broker program is showing severe signs that it is overstretched. You don’t need me to tell you that withdrawal times are getting worse. Compare them to six months ago.
More ‘World Tours’ – Banners Broker is losing the online battle for publicity (with articles like my last swamping their brand at the top of Google), which is why it is throwing resources in to offline ‘tours’ as a means of recruiting new investors. This looks set to continue in to the new year with a tour of India planned. Will Banners Broker make it that far? I couldn’t possibly say. But if you’d like a long list of ‘deeply troubling questions’ to ask them in person, feel free to email me.
The Press Will Continue to Circle – The Sunday World has reported three negative stories in three weeks on Banners Broker. The Irish Examiner is also chiming in. I know for a fact that at least two major UK newspapers are interested in the fate of the scheme, as I’ve been speaking to them personally. Expect to hear lots more negative press about Banners Broker in the following weeks. The knives are being sharpened from all angles.
The Trolls, Shills & Pimps Will Blitz the Comments – The slightest hint of criticism and they always do. Just ask yourself, “What is their motivation?” If they were really making money from Banners Broker (and I’m sure some of them are), why do they care what anybody else thinks? The reason they defend this program so devoutly is because their future income depends on it. I hope that this post convinces you to think twice about your own.
Is Banners Broker ‘Definitely’ a Ponzi Scheme?
In my last post, I came to the judgment that Banners Broker is a well-disguised ponzi scheme. I stand by that judgment.
In the comments, I faced a lot of questions from readers who thought I couldn’t possibly say with ‘100% conviction’ that it is definitely a ponzi scheme. As much as it pains me to admit this, they are correct.
Theoretically, there is still a tiny chance that Banners Broker isn’t a ponzi scheme. Until the inevitable collapse, there remains a tiny shred of doubt.
The problem for those who back Banners Broker is that it is down to them to answer: “If Banners Broker isn’t a ponzi scam, what could it possibly be?”
The existing business model is riddled with flaws and impossibilities. There is simply no way that the money being paid to investors could have been delivered by online advertisers in the model that Banners Broker is claiming. Zero chance.
And that’s where this research ends.
If you believe that Banners Broker can operate as something other than a ponzi scam and deliver such spectacular returns, you are welcome to carry on believing, to keep on throwing your savings at the cause.
If, like many, you are coming to suspect the workings behind Banners Broker for something more sinister, you may wish to cancel your ticket to the BB World Tour, roll out your mock-Bannatyne accent and repeat this loud and clear:
“I’m out.“
So I was going to write a longer post.. this is my “joke” theory that might be true.. possible but doubtful. I don’t have a vast knowledge of the advertising industry online. My theory is bb runs it’s ads off porn sites.. If you figure some of these tube sites are not far behind sites like YouTube and there are a lot of them in the top 100 websites in the world.. imagine how many impressions some of these sites receive let alone pop ups. Never seen anyone else make a comment like this, thought it was an interesting thought 🙂 lol
For although wealth may not bring happiness, the immediate prospect of it provides a wonderfully close imitation;
Patrick O’Brian from HMS Surprise.
Nobody seems to have mentioned/realised that the case against BB in India is based ENTIRELY on an accusation by their former employee/director that he and his friends/relatives were promised high returns which haven’t materialised, since they joined in October 2011.
I suspect that BB will be able to defend themselves easily on the grounds that the ‘business’ transparently does not equate the notional value of panels with money available in the E Wallet to withdraw. Some have interpreted it that way, but that’s they’re greed/stupidity getting in the way of the facts presented in the official documnetation and presentations going on at that time and beyond.
The process of building ‘returns’ is a long term one because most of the money is necessarily tied up in panels and much of the money generated by panel completion HAS to be kept in the system in order to buy traffic packs and premium membership fees.
If they joined when they say they did, then it is the complainant who has misrepresented the potential returns to his friends. i.e. he equated the value of the panels with the value of withdrawable funds over a year or so. But, it was always made clear in V2 of BB that if you put in £3,000, you’d need somewhere around £30,000 worth of panels to be have enough in your e-wallet to withdraw your initial investment AND retain the cashflow to keep buying traffic and subscriptions. It would take a lot longer to build the value of the E WALLET to produce WITHDRAWABLE funds in the tens of £1,000’s unless you had a large team of direct sign up afflilates.
He would acquire traffic to boost his account via his downline and be in a position to prosper at an accelerated rate (and possibly achieve the target) but THEY wouldn’t. Hence it’s highly likely to be the people below him who he has exaggerated the returns on investment to, who have complained to HIM; and he has had to try and claim he was mislead by BB by taking his false grievance to the police.
Anyone (including Irish and other journalists) who think BB was ever advertised in Version 2 as a ‘get rich quick’ scheme are being mislead either by deluded/ill-informed people who failed to read the t and c or just failed to rationalise how the model was supposed to work EVEN IF there had been a genuine external advertiser network.
Unfortunately, I suspect that the case in India WILL collapse because it’s arisen over a malicious personal dispute founded on a false premise; and not the wider and much more important issue of whether or not BB’s business in its entirity is illegal.
That won’t be investigated and the India saga will end up as a positive publicity coup for BB. :/
“Nobody seems to have mentioned/realised that the case against BB in India is based ENTIRELY on an accusation by their former employee/director that he and his friends/relatives were promised high returns which haven’t materialised, since they joined in October 2011.”
How do you know the case is based “ENTIRELY” on those grounds? Do you have information that the rest of us are not privy to? Is it not more likely that once the initial complaint had been made the police undertook some investigations and that the subsequent actions are as a result of those?,
Or are you suggesting that the mere act of turning up at a police station in India and making an accusation is enough to get someone arrested and sent to trial?
One of my friends who was sold on the idea of “investing” with BB was told that their money would be doubled within 6 months pretty much guaranteed. E-wallet or not this is a promise of investment returns and whether it was V1, V2, V2.8 it doesn’t make a difference, this was touted as a get rich quick scheme by A LOT of people so the Indian authorities were more than right to shut it down. BB are just using this employee as a scapegoat and I would be more than surprised if they had not instructed him/her to tell the good people of India that it was a double your money guaranteed scheme.
Just to be clear, whether it is party line at the moment or not, BB were 100% selling this as a double your money with no risk scheme.
@D Pressed
You keep on saying you won’t come back and yet here you are again. Should be grateful your post was smaller this last time. Give it up please.
So this blog post is now at the top when you search ‘Banners Broker’ on google, above the BB website! Not looking good for the BB crew.
Well it’s all speculation I’m leaving this forum now as I’m bored it just goes round and round in circles the fact is none of us have a clue on whats going on, and the is it or isn’t it question will go unanswered it’s been a pleasure. Bye
@Paul
Does that mean you’ll be leaving Banners Broker as well?, after all the ads they place are non existent.
This is not going round and round in circles, there are major developments happening, India for example, Irish newspapers taking an interest, and now TODAY the “Daily Mirror” has ran a story about Banners Broker.
To be fair, it’s only a short piece, but it’s a start, people will now (probably) come forward, things tend to snowball after one person has made a complaint.
Of course Paul, you’ve a vested interest in muddying the waters, but sensible people not blinded by greed can weigh up all the pro’s and cons. I believe without any doubt at all, IT’S A CON.
Iain, still no answer or phone number, I see you’re still around talkingbb so what’s the problem with logging on here and answering a couple of question ?
Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=TFXASfRq9wU&NR=1
I quote him “It’s IMPOSSIBLE not to make money with Banners Broker”
Finch, just wanted to say Thank You, an ex colleague of mine tried to persuade me to join. Thank fully I came accross your site and firmly beleive that BB is a scam, sadly another colleague was persuaded to invest £2500 in November which I doubt he will ever see again.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks Finch for delating. I just watched half of the new BannersBroker-website. The India and French chicks are near to perfect. Be it a SCAM 3.0 or whatever … I did invetigate this thing for ten days and the more I understand the less I know.
The Israel is all-the-way in native language. The “French”-site is french start-page and switch back to english.
The panels – as I do guess is dynamic HTML – are – guess: I dont know, but as I start to understand some of its mechanics, hebrew / englsish.
I really hope you know what you are doing finch. from what i can see unfolding, you are going to get bitten mate whether you are right or not. this is not a threat against you or anyone else. its now snowballing into something thats going to end up with no winners.
I don’t think this is about the winners……. It’s about saving/reducing the losers.
I received an email yesterday from Terry Stern, who is the apparent Director of International Public Relations & Compliance at Stellar Point (Banners Broker Canada).
When I saw who the email was from, I was expecting some kind of legal threat or a C&D, but it was nothing of the sort.
He offered to fly me out to Canada, put me up in a hotel and visit the Canadian HQ to view first-hand how the company operates.
Visiting the HQ is an intriguing proposition, and one that I’m tentatively going to accept, on the condition that all of the expenses are paid by myself so there’s no conflict of interest.
In the meantime, I suggested that the company could clear up some of the concerns related to their business model (and the India situation) in a Q&A session that I will publish on this blog, unedited and in full. It will give them a chance to have their say in response to the allegations.
To my knowledge, it would be a first if Banners Broker were to respond directly to the key questions concerning their advertising model.
I’m looking forward to it.
My friend D.Pressed nailed it: “That won’t be investigated and the India saga will end up as a positive publicity coup for BB. :/”
BTW MR FINCH of “Your comment is awaiting moderation” you are not above the law**. $ billions and $ millions here and there and your new friends*.
*drug lords and terrorits NEVER make good friends. NEVER
**”n the meantime, I suggested that the company could clear up some of the concerns related to their business model (and the India situation) in a Q&A session that I will publish on this blog, unedited and in full. It will give them a chance to have their say in response to the allegations.”
“I will publish on this blog, unedited and in full”
really?
An intriguing proposition indeed, I sincerely hope you take them up on that one. I’d carry a hidden recording device, preferably one of those “Spy Pens” which record video and audio onto a micro-SIM card.
Mind you, it’ll only serve to prove there’s real people in a real office building, but it doesn’t prove whether their business model is legit or not. A Q&A session answering the key questions would certainly be highly desirable, because until that happens, the number of people questioning there business model, etc are going to increase.
@Theseus
The prosecution is against an individual employee, NOT the company. It is based on a complaint made by other individuals and an ex. employee. It is a case about alleged misrepresentation by HER, to THEM not a prosecution of BB’s operation per se. If it was, the Indian police would as much within their rights to prosecute the complainant i.e. ‘former director’ who still apparently holds a high shareholding in the company!…regardless that the figures relating to that share holding are absurd.
Nick says:
One of my friends who was sold on the idea of “investing” with BB was told that their money would be doubled within 6 months pretty much guaranteed. E-wallet or not this is a promise of investment returns.
Who was he told by? Did he go to an official BB presentation, or just sign up on the say so of someone who had signed up? Did that person bother to go to a meeting, did they come away enlightened or confused? I’m suspicious because the term ‘pretty much’ means they were NOT guaranteed anything!! Banks/Building Societies or any legal enforcable contracts don’t use terms like ‘pretty much’. Neither does the BB t and c.
Regardless: Add up how much they put in and compare that to the notional value of their panels. They will be least double due to free traffic completing within a set period. If they have bothered to learn the most basic aspects of activating panels in proportion to the size of their initial investment and repurchase of panels, they WILL have at least twice as much in their e-wallet as when they started six to eight months ago.
BUT: It’s possible to have $20,000 in panels yet NOTHING in your e-wallet, or $8,000 in panels and $1,000 in your E-Wallet! It all depends on how aggressively the affliate has ‘invested’ (or bought stock) in products such as traffic packs, boosters etc. and whether they have a downline themselves.
Your ‘money’, is only what is withdrawable from your e-wallet. Your ‘earnings’ are the value of panels completed, your potential earnings when all panels are completed is the highest figure. All are measurable definitions of growth (doubling). BUT It is a perpetual BUSINESS scheme which demands for every panel you complete you have to buy another one from your ‘profit’. It’s NOT like a bank where you ‘invest’ and can take all of your capital out as income!
Therefore many AFFILATES have misrepresented the model in that regard, not BB per se. BB have grossly misrepresented the value of the different INCOME STREAMS, not the basic model. That’s completely wrong of them of course and ruins the model as a viable ADVERTISING business, but while BB still exists, your friends’ money still ‘pretty much’ exists. Even if it’s paid from someone else’s much higher earnings because their e-wallet is ‘pretty much’ empty!
You cannot therefore glibly say ‘E-wallet or not’ because the onus is and was always on the affliate to manage their account sensibly with accurate advice from their supposedly knowledgeable direct referer (upline), or a knowledgeable BB rep. at a presentation; that they bought a franchise in a business model, and have not invested in a savings account!
As Finch and others have stated, a Ponzi or pyramid BUSINESS scheme/scam must pay out money in order to survive. So, as things stand, if they continue to pay out then those who have money in their e-wallet can claim it! Whether they all get paid is another matter, but some will while BB is extant. And BB will keep going longer via greedy and/or ignorant affiliates with 100%++ growth but zero liquidity.
I could easily claim a lot more from my e-wallet than I have claimed, because I managed my panels economically, but I won’t for reasons stated before. To a large extent though, that residual money will go to subsidise idiots who know NOTHING about the theory of the ‘business’, never mind failed to do ‘due diligence’ about how advertising networks work in reality, rather than in theory.
Finch says “I received an email yesterday from Terry Stern …He offered to fly me out to Canada, put me up in a hotel and visit the Canadian HQ to view first-hand how the company operates”.
Well what are you waiting for?
“Visiting the HQ is an intriguing proposition .. and one that I’m tentatively going to accept” .. tentatively? What the!? Pay your own way, just don’t be a douche.
“In the meantime, I suggested that the company could clear up some of the concerns related to their business model (and the India situation) in a Q&A session that I will publish on this blog, unedited and in full. It will give them a chance to have their say in response to the allegations.” .. In the meantime? Mate, get off your high horse and meet with Terry.
Finch, it’s good of them to make this offer, but it’s not the first time I’ve heard such things, never from the part of the invited person, always stories from within BB .
Who is Terry Stern ?, I’ve never heard of him (that I can recall).
Before you fly across the world to a place you’ve never been, to meet people you don’t know, I suggest you gain some confidence in who he is and how open they are being about this.
The best case scenario i suppose is that BB are totally genuine and DO have a secret method that works (I REALLY hope this is the case), worst case is that you jump on a plane and go missing in Canada (I seriously doubt this would happen, but hey).
If Terry plays this right and is open and honest, is able to PROVE without any doubt whatsoever the business model works, then good for them.
My major concern is, why wait until now ?, my second one is, this is the type of stunt a ponzi company would pull (it’s all about manipulation and lies).
I look forward to hearing what they have to say.
ok so today is day five and everything went through on allied wallet part so I got the 415 package and activated all my pannels and now lol there n queued for 24hrs. its saying after all my pannels Finnish it will pay out 1000 and double like it said it would. but it will probably take forever. I think when it hits 1000 im gonna cash out if that is possible.
Snipe , it doesnt work like that ..
you will find you cant just cash out ..
best thing to do is to watch some tutorials on BB and then you will realise how to run the account to make the money grow to a level that you can then withdraw good ammounts of money .
From the reading I have been doing BB will run for a long time yet and if you are in then work the system and make easy cash.
I am no expert though and stioll new to BB but seem to have a grip on the workings now regarding panels and roll ups etc .
ste
Acording to “Ian Driscall” bannersbroker have a 20 year plan
“Acording to “Ian Driscall” bannersbroker have a 20 year plan” (Dean0)
Well Bernie Madoff managed to keep going for 20 years as well.
@D Pressed
Come off it, you know full well that the glitzy promise of BB is that you “cannot lose money” by going (investing) in it. You are probably well aware that any financial adverts are required by law to state “value of investments can go up and down”. Before you come back at me with BB isn’t an investment just really really think about it. You are putting money into “something” that is going to double that money in a short time. That something is an investment. That’s why BB ban the word investment (see their Terms & Conditions) because they know that all the regulatory authorities are going to be on their case otherwise.
Please, please stop defending a company that has failed to answer any of the valid criticisms of its business practices in over 2 years of trading, steals the accounts of investors, fails to refund investors, delays paying investors, etc etc! All they do is simper that they are legitimate, and that they are here for the long term.
Why would the police close the office of a business because of a rogue employee? Doesn’t add up D Pressed, and you know it
Finch, you have + from me, that youve agreed for this trip
Remember to verify that the guy is really some BB employee..
Imo it sounds like finch is either going to be returning home in a coffin or with a suitcase full of money lol.
more pyramid companies raided in india
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-01-08/kochi/36215545_1_crime-branch-modicare-raids
more to come .
Thanks for the heads-up, sounds like a nationwide crackdown.
It will be interesting to see if Banners Broker manages to open a Bangalore office, and if so, how long it stays open for.
This is a clever move by BB.
If Finch does not go to Canada, then they can say that “oh well, we invited one of our biggest critics, but he didn’t accept our kind and open offer, so what more can we do?” They can put a positive spin on it and use it to try to discredit Finch – he was too “frit” to meet them, so don’t listen to him!
If he does go, well, it will be a huge PR stunt on their part, they will pull out all the stops, although I am sure he will know what questions to ask and what to look for.
Interesting though that this Terry Stern has popped up out of the blue; and that from his LInkedin profile he seems to be an ardent Freemason. If Dixit, Smith, Driscoll and co are also “on the square”, Mr Stern’s involvement would make sense. No Freemason can ignore a cry for help from a Brother.
I’m not one of the “Masons are trying to take over the world” brigade, but I do know from personal experience that they will do each other favours in life and in business. So I would just encourage Finch to be aware of that.
Uke realscom.com is arogant as ever: “WE are excited with how the plans are going. ”
I did a lot of the thing called “reverse engenering and found more of math but old-style-MLM, sorry to say.
“start-ups happen” to mis-quote a’ old Heinlein story. BannersBroker did break even – in that way its “broke”.
Mr Finchman you may have some lawyers within your team that knows about taxes, bancrupcy in Canada and international law and specific India law. Ask your blind UK-papers to make contacs and let BB pay for your team.
BTW the BB really respects you, believe me. I guess they’ll offer you a $ 500,000 job for the thing that will replace the ad-pub-combos “soon”?
I found this to be an interesting read….
————
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/acai-advanced-cleanse-amp-weight-loss-program-c245929.html#c607719
Scroll down to Martin Osborn if the page does not open there. I presume Martin Osborn is the real name for Finchsells. Incidentally, CPA means cost per action (that means click/impression, etc.)
Now who do you think is more likely to be trying to rip you off – Banners Broker or Finchsells?
But he sounds so convincing. How does he do it?
Let me show you how he does it. Let me tell you about the “missing ten cents.”
Three men went into a coffee shop and each ordered a cup of coffee. When they had finished, they asked how much, and the waitress told them $3.00 in total (yes, this is a very old story). So they each paid $1.00 and left the shop. Soon after, the manager came out and asked the waitress how much she had charged the men for the coffee.
She said $3.00. The manager said: “Have you forgotten our special this week? 3 cups of coffee for $2.50. You have overcharged them by 50 cents.” He opened the cash register and took out 50 cents and handed it to the waitress and said: “Here, take this money and go and give it back to the men.” So the waitress ran out of the coffee shop and up the street to where the three men had resumed their walk. But thinking quickly, she dropped 20 cents into her own pocket, and when she caught up to the men, she said: “Here. You were overcharged for the coffee. They should have only been 90 cents each, not $1.00.” And with that she handed them back 10 cents each.
So now the three men have paid a total of $2.70 (90 cents each), the waitress has 20 cents, which makes a total of $2.90. Where is the missing 10 cents?
You have just been conned, exactly the way Martin Osborn, or Finch, or whoever he is, has conned you.
Just read what he says at the beginning of his sleazy blog:
In October, I made a post about Banners Broker being a suspected ponzi scheme. To say that the post has gone viral would be a massive understatement. It is currently drawing several thousand hits per day, with 357 comments and counting.
My Hate Mail has also been buzzing left, right and center.
While that initial post was designed to raise awareness of the scam, critics have said – quite rightly – that it doesn’t offer enough evidence to say, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the program is a ponzi scheme.
Personally, I wasn’t expecting there to even be a debate. It’s pretty obvious what Banners Broker is.
This guy became intoxicated with his own “success.” His first bullshit story about Banners Broker resulted in so many hits to his website, he had to keep it going. He had become “famous” overnight (I would prefer to say infamous). He admits up front that he does not have any evidence that Bannners Broker is a Ponzi scheme. But by the time you get to the end of his distorted, twisted, rambling, deceptive spiel, you tend to believe it all sounds plausible. Yet it was built on a deliberate wrongful assumption from the beginning, just like the story of the missing 10 cents.
—————-
So the guy who’s here acting like the apparent “watchdog” for us, is actually one of the people he’s claiming to warn us about? And we’re listening to him why?
Looks like he’s conned us.
Pauly – I’m glad you posted this.
I was sent Graham Dyer’s PDF last night and I was in the middle of writing a point by point reply to it, as well as another PDF currently doing the rounds. I’m particularly looking forward to addressing the official definition of ‘THE Blind Network’.
Let’s address Graham’s points one by one…
—
Scroll down to Martin Osborn if the page does not open there. I presume Martin Osborn is the real name for Finchsells. Incidentally, CPA means cost per action (that means click/impression, etc.)
Now who do you think is more likely to be trying to rip you off – Banners Broker or Finchsells?
—
Firstly, the links to the cleanse program. Yep, it’s true. I promoted an affiliate offer for a weight loss product that was eventually shut down for lousy customer service and misleading claims. I regret ever promoting the product and have spoken many times on this blog of the need for the industry to police itself better, which it is thankfully now doing.
But if you think that it’s a revelation that you found a complaint about a ‘CPA scammer’ who runs a CPA marketing blog, you obviously don’t know much about this industry.
A few things to point out about the cleanse product
– I advertised it for a grand period of 3 weeks, over 4 years ago, at the very start of my affiliate career.
– I stopped promoting it as soon as I learned of their misuse of the negative option and the backlash it was causing.
I do love the irony of linking to a post on a scam board and using this as ‘evidence’, despite the fact that much of the information is wrong. I didn’t think Banners Broker took any notice of complaints on scam boards?!
—
Graham’s description of what an affiliate does for a living: (this is epic)
Three men went into a coffee shop and each ordered a cup of coffee. When they had finished, they asked how much, and the waitress told them $3.00 in total (yes, this is a very old story). So they each paid $1.00 and left the shop. Soon after, the manager came out and asked the waitress how much she had charged the men for the coffee.
She said $3.00. The manager said: “Have you forgotten our special this week? 3 cups of coffee for $2.50. You have overcharged them by 50 cents.” He opened the cash register and took out 50 cents and handed it to the waitress and said: “Here, take this money and go and give it back to the men.” So the waitress ran out of the coffee shop and up the street to where the three men had resumed their walk. But thinking quickly, she dropped 20 cents into her own pocket, and when she caught up to the men, she said: “Here. You were overcharged for the coffee. They should have only been 90 cents each, not $1.00.” And with that she handed them back 10 cents each.
So now the three men have paid a total of $2.70 (90 cents each), the waitress has 20 cents, which makes a total of $2.90. Where is the missing 10 cents?
You have just been conned, exactly the way Martin Osborn, or Finch, or whoever he is, has conned you.
—
Is this for real? I mean, seriously? The guy clearly does not understand affiliate marketing.
Let me give you a better description of what I do for a living:
Three men are walking down a street when a salesman (aka, me) stops them and invites them inside a coffee shop. The salesman offers them a special deal of 3 coffees for $3.00. They accept and go inside. They order their coffees.
Afterwards the manager of the coffee shop thanks the salesman for sending the customers by paying him $0.50 as a commission.
There you go. That is affiliate marketing for you.
I’m not sure where the missing 10 cents went in Graham’s lame story. I can tell you that not many affiliate marketers are going to have the slightest clue what the moral of his story is.
Perhaps… ‘You shouldn’t tell stupid stories when you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about’.
—
I will discuss the “scambags” in a moment. But think about this. If you had hard evidence that something was a scam or a Ponzi or a fraudulent, dishonest scheme, would you blabber it on the internet? Would you get on a blog or forum, or even set up your own website to tell the world to stay away from this dangerous deception? If you had some hidden agenda you might. But if you had any brains, you wouldn’t. You would report your hard evidence to the police or a government authority so they could have the matter investigated, would you not? So are you likely to find out about real scams on
the internet? Hardly. So why do you use these disreputable sites for your “due diligence?”
—
He says… before posting links to a scam board that mentions my name, and then passing it off as proof that I’m a scammer? LOL, nice.
The idea that ‘real scams’ are not talked about on the Internet, but reported silently to the police, is just a complete fantasy. And for the record, I’ve said this many times now, but I reported Banners Broker to the authorities long before I published any post on this blog.
These posts are designed to raise awareness. A job they are doing very well. They are not to make money, and they are not to make me famous, as he goes on to suggest…
—
This guy became intoxicated with his own “success.” His first bullshit story about Banners Broker resulted in so many hits to his website, he had to keep it going. He had become “famous” overnight (I would prefer to say infamous). He admits up front that he does not have any evidence that Bannners Broker is a Ponzi scheme. But by the time you get to the end of his distorted, twisted, rambling, deceptive spiel, you tend to believe it all sounds plausible. Yet it was built on a deliberate wrongful assumption from the beginning, just like the story of the missing 10 cents.
—
Somewhere there’s supposed to be a point to this. I’m not seeing it. Just like the missing 10 cents, I’m left thinking… WTF?
My one response to this gibberish is a simple, “Why?”
It’s pretty much accepted that this blog has taken over the top of Google for most Banners Broker related search terms. If my interest was in making money, don’t you think I’d have more to gain by promoting Banners Broker as an affiliate rather than telling people to keep their money in their wallets?
Imagine how many affiliates I could recruit to my downline if I so wanted to?!
I’ve made my stance perfectly clear.
I believe the program is a ponzi scheme, and I’ve backed it up with hard evidence – evidence that still has not been disputed by Banners Broker. At no point have I ever suggested that I ‘don’t have any evidence’. This entire post has been built on facts, not assumptions.
—
PS: I just received this from a chat room:
[5:13:12 PM | Edited 5:13:38 PM] Michael D: (*) Met Lorenzo last night in Manchester one of the BB founders he says we have not seen nothing yet, there are a lot of improvements and exciting changes to come and BB is just starting to find its feet, spoke about they are planning on being around for the next 20 years so we are all going to be loaded, good times ahead! (*) 🙂He also said ignore the negativity online and get on with our businesses and they are going to have a bit of a blogging war, by having BB writing negative blogs about the negative bloggers which should be fun.
—
You know what’s funny about this? Terry Stern, the international director of compliance reached out to me just a couple of days ago inviting me to Canada to check out their office. And now you have a Banners Broker ambassador telling affiliates not to worry about me because they’re going to publish a bunch of negative blogs about me?
Well, that sounds pretty professional, doesn’t it?!
Does Zuckerberg have time to start Blog Wars with people who speak badly of him? No, because he runs a real business.
You know you’re working with the dregs of the barrel when the response to a critic is to write shit about him instead of addressing the complaints.
—
Last night I was sent another ‘insider’ PDF of the info that is currently getting circulated around Banners Broker, including an entire powerpoint presentation that I will be debunking very soon, point by point.
Here’s a sneak peak of the kind of logic we’re dealing with.
You might not get the humour behind this unless you have experience in the advertising industry.
If you do, the next post is going to be very amusing indeed.
For anyone “investing” in BB. Ask yourself a simple question, do you know exactly how your BB profits are generated? Where does the money showing in your account come from, is it real? I know how google makes their money, I know how facebook makes money, but I’m dammed if I can work out how BB does it and they don’t seem to be able to tell me. Could someone post a simple explanation of how their business model is supposed to work. Show me a profit and loss statement and a balance sheet! If you don’t know how it works, then why the hell are you giving them your money!
This is bloody hilarious Finch, love the diagram it’s funny because BB they talk about advertising like there’s some big super computer/hub where all online advertisers on “d’internets” exist and they just simply plug into that like some electrical socket and presto twice ya money rofl.
A word of advice though be very careful when meeting these guys wouldn’t want to see ya get banged up abroad, I’d be inclined to have someone watching your back and ensure there are people you trust that know your movements while inside any building so they can’t pull any bullshit unless of course you have media coverage of some sort.
@Ditto Ditto
My post was primarily about criticising ignorant affiliates. In order to do that I have to point out that BB do not call the scheme an investment. Therefore neither should affliates BY LAW.
BUT MANY DO. That makes them ignorant and/or stupid. I’m not ‘defending’ BB….merely stating the FACT that it is a business, not an investment.
‘Why would the police close the office of a business because of a rogue employee?’….
That’s exactly my point!!!! AND you’ve called BB a business, enhancing the credibility of my initial point that affiliates are part of a business.
They WOULD close the office of a business that is running an illegal Ponzi. They might do that at some point, by due process, but THIS PROSECUTION is NOT against BB, it is pursued by and against allegedly ‘rogue employees’. So why would the police close the office of a business on that basis alone…? It doesn’t add up. I AGREE. That’s what I stated!! The FACT that they are NOT prosecuting BB as a company proves my point in the way you describe it! Whatever the outcome of this prosecution, it will not directly affect BB’s India operation.
If you can’t understand simple principles of logic then your input is better directed at people like andreasheinz who are masters of irrational conceit.
Anyway…Things have changed. Finch has been given a direct invitation to visit the offices of BB…. If he turns that down, then it’s game over for the anti-BB brigade (of which I remain part for the SPECIFIV reasons I’ve explained at length. His credibility shot to bits if he doesn’t face up to the friendly face of BB on their own territory, and return unmoved in his beliefs.
Assuming he’s got his facts right, then he can only come back with stronger evidence to present to ‘the authorities.
So…. no excuses Finch. Enough talking the talk. Time to fly the fly.
>> “Anyway…Things have changed. Finch has been given a direct invitation to visit the offices of BB…. If he turns that down, then it’s game over for the anti-BB brigade (of which I remain part for the SPECIFIV reasons I’ve explained at length.”
So, let me get this straight. Your anti-BB stance depends on me flying out to Canada?
That’s weak, just like your rhetoric.
So when I come home, still with the belief that Banners Broker is a ponzi scheme, you’ll nod your head and commit to my ‘anti-BB’ team while presumably still spewing these passive-aggressive tangents at every opportunity? Right…
>> “His credibility shot to bits if he doesn’t face up to the friendly face of BB on their own territory, and return unmoved in his beliefs.”
The friendly face of BB? The same friendly face that talks shit about me at every one of their seminars? The same friendly face that releases PDFs detailing how I’m a ‘scambag’? The same friendly face that wants to ignite a ‘Blogger War’ by writing negative pieces about me? Yeah, I can’t wait to have lunch with them. What a treat.
My credibility is just fine, regardless of what I do next. Thanks for caring.
>> “So…. no excuses Finch. Enough talking the talk. Time to fly the fly.”
You are completely and utterly irrational, and deluded for good measure.
It’s time for me to fly to Canada, but it’s not time for BB to answer the very simple questions directed at their business?
You are an exact template of the reaction that BB was hoping for and expecting when they invited me to Canada.
The fact that you think this argument and my credibility hinges on flying around the world, but that Banners Broker have a free pass to dodge questions that can be answered in 10 minutes, well, that says it all. You’re as gullible as you were when you joined BB.
@ D Pressed
I think all you want is for Finch – anybody – to make you feel better about yourself. Go look up cognitive dissonance. Then go and think, really think, about what you say and post on here BEFORE you do so.
Oh dear.
This is all very sad Finch. You haven’t replied to any of my posts for ages. Including the ones where I critiqued your own methods of marketing.
I can tell from your response you’re in panic mode. You didn’t expect them to invite you and you don’t know what to do about it.
Let’s go back to the beginning and remember who started this thread, who writes this blog and who directly accused BB of being a scam.
YOU.
My posts here have always been based on the belief that YOU got your facts right and my own dissatisfaction with BB’s hopeless customer services which appears to deliberately contrive stalling tactics. Although I was brought here initially by MY increasing concerns about MY experience of what was going on (or not going on as it should be),as an affliate. I just want to know the TRUTH. My posts have tried to balance the hysteria been the so-called ‘shills’ and those like you who have categorically called BB a scam/ponzi etc. I’m definitely not a shill. I am inclined to believe that the business model BB presented is not operative, and that I’ve (almost certainly)lost the money I put into it. I am critical of shills and of BB, but also want to know facts from those who purport to be experts in online marketing regardless of their stance for or against BB.
My critical stance of BB will remain regardless of what you do for the SPECIFIC reasons explained in this and other posts. Now you’re wriggling on a pin because you don’t know what to do to prove your Ponzi position…other than sarcastically insult people on your own blogs who you yourself have stated are victims of a scam.
There are also so many basic errors being made now by you in your interpretation of other peoples’ comments that it smacks of desperation. I am insulted that you call me ‘irrational’ and ‘deluded’ on the basis of your interpretation of a single comment, taken out of context of the extensive, balanced rationale I have posted on your blog over several weeks. People can read it and decide who is rhetorical and who is rational and I’m comfortable that my credibility is certainly not diminished by your childish response today.
Furthermore, BB have shown you their friendly face….whoever this bloke is. You then go on to conclude that therefore I don’t believe they also have a mean, spiteful face…many faces in fact. I’ve mentioned the many things about BB I don’t like at length. So again, you quote and then decry me entirely unfairly and IRRATIONALLY. And you’ve defined the time and effort I’ve expended to help get your blog above BB’s own website as ‘rhetoric’.
Ditto Ditto thinks the Indian police closed down BB India. Another factually incorrect statement. BB closed its office because the person running it has a pending trial. Of course, it’s ludicrous for a business to close its office for that reason alone which reveals the extent that I still remain highly critical of BB and its extremely dubious methods. But facts are facts and without them, the case against BB is undermined by people like him too.
Similarly, there are people on ‘realscam’ loving the fact that there was some sort of article in the Daily Mirror. Yes there was an article, but it wasn’t investigative journalism. Ian Driscoll and Leamington Spa? It was lazy, lame space-fill and amounted to nothing more than them quoting one bloke and doing a quick click via Google to find some out of date ‘information’ about the BB UK office and its main man and just ASSUMED the two were one and the same. It’s pathetic, but typical of the tawdry tabloid press in this country.
Mr Hendy thinks it’s good publicity against BB…despite a couple of factual errors!!… Sorry, but factual errors of any sort completely undermine the case against BB. In the same way that people saying there is a big ‘network’ of adverts but can’t indentify any of it, undermine the case for BB. That doesn’t mean that the evidence you and others have presented against BB is wrong, or that I suddenly think BB are a wonderful, legitimate business. Of course I don’t. I’m not an idiot, despite your inferences. But all you and others on here do now is debate out of context because BB are smarter than you hoped they would be. Once you start fighting yourselves and people who have supported you (as I have in regard to FACTS), I’m afraid you do lose credibility. Particularly when you combine it with arrogance and a very patronising tone.
So I take it you’re not going to go? You’ve spent months asking them for direct answers to direct questions. They have offered you that chance, not ‘virtually’ via e-mail, but in the comfort of a face to face meeting on their own territory. What more could you want? If they’ve got anything to hide you’re clever enough to find it. It’s a great opportunity even if it does require a couple of long haul flights. After all….you have always championed the notion that only hard work and genuine endeavour will yield rewards. Not just a few clicks of a mouse button and the hope that all the answers will appear in the way we’d all like. By doing nothing that requires any genuine effort.
D. Pressed – I haven’t replied to any of your recent posts because they are long, off-topic, boring and invariably full of shit. Just like this most recent one.
Some of the other commenters have spotlighted your ‘issues’ well enough. I don’t feel the need to repeat them.
Who says I’m ‘wriggling on a pin’?
I’ve made it clear that I will go to Canada, paying out of my own pocket, and I will meet them first-hand. I can’t make the trip until March, and so I have suggested that they respond to my questions via email first.
What part of that is ‘wriggling on a pin’? I don’t need to prove anything here. The evidence I’ve already put forward – undisputed – speaks for itself.
They are not difficult questions that I want answered. If they can’t answer them, then what am I supposed to do in Canada? Comment on their vending machines? Comment on Raj Dixit’s hospitality?
As for what happens on RealScam or the Mirror blog, I really don’t care. You’re the one that’s talking about it.
Thanks Ditto Ditto, but if you’re merely going to represent yourself via mind games and sarcasm then you’ve lost my respect. I’m sure you won’t care, nor care that I don’t respect Finch’s latest response to me, nor that I don’t respect the way BB go about their business. But I do retain some self respect despite my self-confessed foolishness for putting money into a business proposition that I didn’t fully understand. That was a long time ago now though. And the amount I have presumably lost is nothing compared to many who remain positive, even evangelical about BB.
I’ve said several times that I’ve got nothing more to add. This time I mean it, because this circular ‘debate’ is now hindered by assumption, sarcasm, and an almost total absence of fresh fact.
>> “I’ve said several times that I’ve got nothing more to add. This time I mean it, because this circular ‘debate’ is now hindered by assumption, sarcasm, and an almost total absence of fresh fact.”
Correct.
Which is why I don’t bother replying to you.
If you want 24/7 news, switch on Sky.
What I find interesting is, none of you have any FACTS.
Everything posted here, is done so based on assumptions, conjecture, supposition, hearsay, and coincidence. In the absence of any formal answers from the company, you’re making stuff up, and reacting to similarities. This whole blog is based on what Finch knows and could find out digging, but in reality, he has about as much information as the rest of you do, he just packages it better. So let’s look at reality here….
1. You wish to speak ill and condemn Raj Dixit because of his past, but wish us to overlook your past?
– You want us to take your word for it that you were only there a short time, and once you found out what was going on, you left….this from a self-proclaimed scumbag? How are we to verify any of the information you’ve put out there? Simply put, because you speak about it first, doesn’t negate your being part of a scam. If you want us to cut you some slack, you’re going to have to do the same for others. You seemed to have changed, but it’s impossible for others to have. Interesting.
2. Evidence, where is it?
– What factual, real, hold-in-your-hand evidence do you have that BB is a scam? You complain that the authorities aren’t reacting fast enough, or “when” they do it’ll look bad for them…really? Based on what? Circumstantial evidence of the going’s on in Goa? The fact that you can’t figure out what their business model really is so you’re going to accuse them of being a ponzi scheme until they show you? How have they wronged you, what money have you lost because of them? I’ve heard many many people talk about how well they’ve done, but all you focus on instead of finding out how they were able to make it work, is trying to figure out how to bring them down.
So, instead of working with the people who’ve stepped forward and said they’ve done well, and ask them how they did it, what they really understood about the opportunity, and get answers the easy way, you chose to look the other way, cause conflict, grind on them, and do things the hard way. Are you liking the hate mail? Are you realizing that perhaps there could have been a better way of doing all this?
I think really, the issue here is just like Jerry Springer in the US, you’re attracted to pain/misery/conspiracy/controversy, like moths to a flame. You don’t have to have facts, you just have to have the illusion of facts in order to spread hate and distrust. Is BB legit? Dunno, but I’m willing to give them their opportunity to convince me, which it looks like they’re trying to do through inviting you to see the operation and ask your questions first hand. If this is so important an issue, really, you can’t manipulate your busy schedule to go before March as you’ve indicated? I thought you were after the truth here?
Based on what I’ve seen, you think you’ve got all the answers, and really don’t understand it when people question you. You resort to condescension when people speak against you, acting all righteous, and still fail to offer any supporting evidence to your claims.
Bottom line, there’s plenty of assumptions, hearsay, conjecture and opinions being thrown around here, but little evidence to support anything more than a circumstantial argument at best. Until any of you that are tossing around your text-based diarrhea actually come up with some factual evidence to support your claims, perhaps it’s time to get a good book and go sit in the corner and wait…it’s going to be March it looks like before Finch gets to listening to the horse firsthand. Anything other than that is really just boosting his web traffic to read what I’ve outlined above…fiction.
D. Pressed what the hell is your point? You think you have lost your money but are attacking the person who is trying to stop others from losing theirs!
Attacking Finch personally or business wise (even though falling very flat) have no bearing on the facts he has brought up showing that this business is not what they say it is.
The point that you keep coming back to is that Finch (or anyone else) cannot prove that it’s a Ponzi scheme, well use your brain for a second and think, how would you prove ANY Ponzi is a Ponzi until the authorities make them open their accounts. These are private businesses and the only way to know if it is a Ponzi or not is for them to open up their books (which is very unlikely to happen) and then analyze them (which won’t take long). A Ponzi is so successful for this very fact.
Finch and others can never say this is a Ponzi 100% unless they have privy inside information, however what they and I are saying that the “business” is 100% based on a lie and the MOST LIKELY way it is operating is as a Ponzi scheme. In the end what does it matter what system they are using? It’s all based on a lie and people will lose money.
I hope you are aware the more you post and the longer those posts are increase Finch’s blog value in Google’s eyes and push it further up the rankings, so your posts have absolutely no value to whatever point/argument you are trying to bring across (which I can not for the the life of me fathom) but they do help to get a lot of eyes on Finch’s excellently presented arguments (read facts).
Keep up the good work 🙂
>> What I find interesting is, none of you have any FACTS.
—
Have you even read the post?
I find it quite tiring to roll out the same famous 10 facts that have been posted time and time again, but here they are…
Fact 1: Nobody can find the ads. Other than a few token (quite silly) ads run by them directly, there is no “footprint” of BB advertising on the internet.
Fact 2: The BB program was announced in 2010 as a “Straightline Doubler Cycler”, and was exclusively announced on HYIP/MLM websites. If you don’t know what “doubler cycler” means, research it.
Fact 3: The guys who started BB or who are now the leaders of it have zero credentials or history in the advertising business. They do, however, have a long history in MLM / Pyramid schemes.
Fact 4: BB refuses to work with you as a publisher if you contact them with an offer to put traffic out on a well-positioned, high-traffic website. Several high profile people have tried this and were not able to even talk to anyone.
Fact 5: BB refuses to work with you as an advertiser, if you contact them with an offer to buy a large order of advertising. Again, several people have tried this and BB is completely unequipped to handle the request.
Fact 6: There is no organic traffic. BB offers the “choice network” to members, with no disclaimer whatsoever about it being in “test mode”. However, when pressed on the complete lack of credibility regarding this network, people quickly say “it is in test mode”. This is not disclosed to any members via the dashboard, back office or on the BB website, anywhere.
Fact 7: No businessmen (or women) in a free market economy would “discover” a business model as elegant as BB claims to be — and turn it over to anyone willing to sign up for a free membership. There are (supposedly) millions of dollars in cash flow at play here, with margins that would make the executives at Google salivate – yet the patrons who started BB decided to give it all away to the rest of us.
Fact 8: BB claims to be in business with Clicksor, yet Clicksor has nowhere near the capacity to even begin to touch the advertising flow-through that BB claims to be driving. You can call Clicksor yourself and confirm this.
Fact 9: BB is not known to any of the outside advertising reporting agencies who spend 24 hours a day tracking and reporting on the online advertising business. You can call ComScore yourself and confirm this.
Fact 10: The leaders of BB never attend, present a topic at or even have a presence (like a simple information booth) at any of the big advertising conferences. This is beyond unusual for a “breakthrough” business such as BB.
If you want more facts (those weren’t written by me), wait for my next post when I’ll be analysing an official BB powerpoint presentation and showing you why it’s complete rubbish.
—
>> “Everything posted here, is done so based on assumptions, conjecture, supposition, hearsay, and coincidence. In the absence of any formal answers from the company, you’re making stuff up, and reacting to similarities. This whole blog is based on what Finch knows and could find out digging, but in reality, he has about as much information as the rest of you do, he just packages it better. So let’s look at reality here”
—
The difference between myself and the average BB investor is that I have first-hand experience in the advertising industry. If you want to talk about assumptions, conjecture, supposition, hearsay and coincidence, god only knows how relevant all of those terms are for the affiliates who invest money in to this scheme without actually experiencing the advertising industry. They are not investors, they are speculators.
—
>> 1. You wish to speak ill and condemn Raj Dixit because of his past, but wish us to overlook your past?
– You want us to take your word for it that you were only there a short time, and once you found out what was going on, you left….this from a self-proclaimed scumbag? How are we to verify any of the information you’ve put out there? Simply put, because you speak about it first, doesn’t negate your being part of a scam. If you want us to cut you some slack, you’re going to have to do the same for others. You seemed to have changed, but it’s impossible for others to have. Interesting.
—
Again, the difference between myself and Raj Dixit is that I’m not currently trawling the world coaxing individuals to invest their life savings in my alleged ponzi scheme. Most of these individuals have no clue what they are investing in.
I promoted a product that was rightfully booted from the market. It was a mistake, but when you are a CPA marketer who promotes hundreds of different products in a year, these mistakes happen. I am much more watchful than I was in 2009.
When I start asking you to invest your savings in my business, that’s when the Dixit comparisons can start.
Likewise, when all is said and done and Banners Broker has been closed down, will you have the bottle to admit that you promoted a program that was a scam? Time will tell!
—
>> 2. Evidence, where is it?
– What factual, real, hold-in-your-hand evidence do you have that BB is a scam? You complain that the authorities aren’t reacting fast enough, or “when” they do it’ll look bad for them…really? Based on what? Circumstantial evidence of the going’s on in Goa? The fact that you can’t figure out what their business model really is so you’re going to accuse them of being a ponzi scheme until they show you? How have they wronged you, what money have you lost because of them? I’ve heard many many people talk about how well they’ve done, but all you focus on instead of finding out how they were able to make it work, is trying to figure out how to bring them down.
—
You keep talking about evidence and my lack of it. All I have done is explain how the business model that Banners Broker claims to be using does not work. It is not possible, and it is not sustainable.
You’re looking for hold-in-the-hand evidence when every single ponzi scheme in history has been successful at hiding that evidence from the public spotlight. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a very good ponzi, would it? The evidence only comes to light after the inevitable raid by the authorities.
I’m finishing my list of questions to send to Banners Broker, and I look forward to hearing their answers.
Until then, I can only go by the information that Banners Broker has made public. And that information is a mess of contradictions, lies, distortion and just plain laughable explanations of how this company is making the profits that it claims.
It is not a single piece of evidence that screams PONZI SCHEME. We get there by deducing that the company cannot possibly be what it claims to be.
—
>> So, instead of working with the people who’ve stepped forward and said they’ve done well, and ask them how they did it, what they really understood about the opportunity, and get answers the easy way, you chose to look the other way, cause conflict, grind on them, and do things the hard way. Are you liking the hate mail? Are you realizing that perhaps there could have been a better way of doing all this?
—
What could I possibly learn from somebody who views the advertising business as a bunch of panels and traffic packs?
These people understand the Banners Broker ecosystem, but they know next to nothing about the industry they are allegedly a part of.
I don’t look to cause conflict. Quite the opposite. I could not care less about you. This article was not written to convince Banners Broker affiliates that they shouldn’t have invested. It is designed to deter potential investors from joining the program. That is the key audience, and one that I am winning quite handily at the top of Google.
So, tell me, why does this post grind on you? What difference does it make to you that a random blogger criticises Banners Broker?
Surely you are still making money, and still getting paid? Why do you care what Finch thinks?
Or is it, as I somehow suspect, that you see me as a threat?
I can only be a danger to Banners Broker if I’m correct in saying that their business model depends on recruiting new investors. By getting so antsy about me, you come across as worried.
But why? Don’t you trust in the legitimacy of the business?
If I’m wrong, then Banners Broker can sit back and ignore me, or send their legal team to request the article be removed (won’t work). But they haven’t. What does that tell you?
They seem just as touchy about their reputation as you do.
—
>> I think really, the issue here is just like Jerry Springer in the US, you’re attracted to pain/misery/conspiracy/controversy, like moths to a flame. You don’t have to have facts, you just have to have the illusion of facts in order to spread hate and distrust.
—
But why? What do I gain out of it?
You are right in a sense that I am attracted to pain and misery. I find the whole nature of ponzi schemes and their clingy investors to be an excellent (and morbid) case study of psychological flaws and cognitive biases. The greed, the blind, the completely irrationality… you’re right. It intrigues me.
But again, let me bring this back to you. Why does any of what I say affect you? Why does it compel you to come here and defend your program so religiously?
Is it because you fear – and perhaps know – that public perception is everything if BB is to survive?
Why do you care, Paul?
—
>> Is BB legit? Dunno…
—
Ahh, there we have it. The answer to why you come here and defend BB so religiously.
You don’t know if it’s legitimate.
It explains why you react so angrily (with fear) when bloggers like myself criticise your lifeblood. You just don’t know. You worry that I’m a threat to your monthly payments, and you should be.
But if Banners Broker is a legitimate business, you don’t need to worry about me.
Perhaps if you had a little more confidence in the legitimacy of Banners Broker, you wouldn’t be here trying to defend it or quash those nasty little rumours that don’t seem to die.
—
>> …but I’m willing to give them their opportunity to convince me, which it looks like they’re trying to do through inviting you to see the operation and ask your questions first hand. If this is so important an issue, really, you can’t manipulate your busy schedule to go before March as you’ve indicated? I thought you were after the truth here?
—
What makes you think it’s an important issue to me?
I don’t have a horse in this race. I have no money invested in Banners Broker and my work over the following six months has absolutely nothing to do with Banners Broker. In short, whether Banners Broker prospers or flops is of no direct relevance to my happiness or success.
Yes, I’m after the truth. And through the two posts so far (and the 3rd to follow), I’m perfectly content that I’ve found it.
That doesn’t mean I don’t intend on travelling to Canada, because I do, and I will. But I’ll go when it suits me, not when an agitated and scared affiliates tells me to.
The only reason Banners Broker seems like an important issue on this blog is because my posts have been stampeded by a bunch of defenders who seem hell-bent on discrediting them. I’ll happily sit here and reply to questions, and I’ll debate the issue, but do I ultimately care what happens to your money? Nope.
—
>> Based on what I’ve seen, you think you’ve got all the answers, and really don’t understand it when people question you. You resort to condescension when people speak against you, acting all righteous, and still fail to offer any supporting evidence to your claims.
—
Yep, I do think I’ve got all the answers. And I do resort to condescension if people bait me with stupid arguments. I get a kick out of snapping at idiocy.
Can’t handle that? Don’t read it!
Nobody forces you to come here. You choose to, probably out of fear.
A small part of you worries that I’m right.
I am only a problem to you and Banners Broker if my claims are correct.
—
>> Bottom line, there’s plenty of assumptions, hearsay, conjecture and opinions being thrown around here, but little evidence to support anything more than a circumstantial argument at best. Until any of you that are tossing around your text-based diarrhea actually come up with some factual evidence to support your claims, perhaps it’s time to get a good book and go sit in the corner and wait…it’s going to be March it looks like before Finch gets to listening to the horse firsthand. Anything other than that is really just boosting his web traffic to read what I’ve outlined above…fiction.
—
Thanks for visiting. Please drop a penny in the jar on the way out.
P.S. Here’s an interesting update from a UK journalist. The part I find most damning is his assessment of the real-world value of the advertising BB offers:
—
I looked into Banners Broker and despite testimonials worldwide from satisfied clients, the company’s business model is excessively complicated, opaque and impossible to see exactly how genuine income is generated. On the face of it, it does seem to depend on attracting an ever increasing number of new customers who make their investment and pay their monthly fees. There is no actual evidence from real websites that the client advertiser/publisher is obtaining any real income for their investment. The company publishes no meaningful statistics and cannot tell the investor where their money has gone.
There is evidence from blogs and forums that Bannners Broker is not answering its clients queries, or responding to demands for payouts. However, others do seem to have been paid and appear satisfied with their investment.
This is a worldwide business with mighty ambition, even though it appears to have a very modest HQ in Ontario, Canada. It claims to have generated 6 billion advertisements, and pays $1 million in commission every day. It claims to have 2500,000 affiliates. Even if you just count the $15 monthly admin fee, and allow for 100,000 members , that means $1.5 million dollars per month. Experts in the on-line advertising industry say that Banners Broker are apparently selling their advertising impressions to their affiliates/investors at 100 times or more that real market values. The company appears to claim sales revenue of $40 million per month.
Feedjit, a well known web publisher, offers two million geotargeted, or 6 million global ad impressions for $49. The same would cost you $18,000 with Banners Broker. Crucially and most worrying, Banners broker does not disclose which websites are running the investor’s impressions. It claims that this is impossible because ads are constantly switched between websites every few minutes.
The company tells investors that they can’t lose money and will generate 100% returns. This, of course, is total rubbish. But they have made good use of social media to spread the word to the gullible and greedy. On the well tried and tested presumption that ‘there is one born every minute’, Banners Broker still attracts idiot investors who want to get rich quick without doing any work for it.
The company started in October 2010 and is based in Ontario, Canada, but banks in Belize. The CEO and sole owner is Chris Smith who alone signs the cheques; Ian Driscoll is in charge of sales; and Rajiv Dixit of head of the Canadian HQ. He was formerly involved in a scam called ICF World Homes which was shut down by the Canadian authorities leaving 900 victims of fraud. There were also accusations of money laundering. Anybody who has given their personal details to Banners Broker as an investor should be alerted to the danger of identity theft.
There is one UK national who recently joined the management team. He is David Hooker who is in charge of compliance . He seems to have popped up after the company had a convention in Ireland last year. His history is as a salesman and motivational speaker. Hooker has just issued a completely impenetrable statement on behalf of Banners Broker to counter the bad publicity of having their Indian Office in Goa raided a few days ago and closed down. The company is now facing a number of fraud charges there.
Any sensible person wouldn’t touch BB with the proverbial bargepole, and the general public will not have much sympathy for those who have decided to throw their money in that particular hole. This really is a case of buyer beware.”
—
What do you make of this, Paul? Another hater with a lust for Jerry Springer?
We seem to be popping up everywhere!
i have made money with banners broker. I invested £300 and a year later am withdrawing $9000 every month. so how is that a scam?
Fact 1: Nobody can find the ads. Other than a few token (quite silly) ads run by them directly, there is no “footprint” of BB advertising on the internet.
– Blind ad networks are often misunderstood despite the huge traffic they serve. With blind networks, you can’t specify the individual Internet sites on which your ads will appear. Instead, you select a channel, such as ‘Entertainment & Lifestyle’ or ‘Premium Portals’ (there are nine to choose from altogether), and your ads are displayed across the hundreds or thousands of websites within that category.
“The anonymity of a blind network suits many publishers well, and a number of publishers ask us to sign confidentiality agreements to ensure that we don’t divulge their participation in our network.
The reasoning behind this is simple. These publishers run premium sites (with high ad rates relative to network advertising). They also usually have an in-house ad-sales team. They sell as much inventory as possible, usually on a CPM basis, but seldom sell their entire inventory. Once they run out of sold ads, they then back-fill with network advertising from us, to ensure a steady flow of income when they run out their own bookings.
To admit to the wider market that they’re actually back-filling with network advertising (available to advertisers at a much lower cost) would harm their perception as a premium publisher, so they ask us not to reveal their names.
This is the positive side of blind networks – you often get great quality, premium traffic, at a fraction of the price that they charge directly. Of course, it’s impossible to target only one publisher or site for a campaign on a blind network, but you’ll almost certainly get traffic that you would ordinarily pay a lot more for, mixed in with the rest of the network of sites.”
Did your due diligence huh? Hence the term “Blind Network”. Nuff said on that.
Fact 2: The BB program was announced in 2010 as a “Straightline Doubler Cycler”, and was exclusively announced on HYIP/MLM websites. If you don’t know what “doubler cycler” means, research it.
– Meh, your point being what? It doesn’t work? It’s illegal? Or are you just trying to create doubt in a system you don’t fully understand?
Fact 3: The guys who started BB or who are now the leaders of it have zero credentials or history in the advertising business. They do, however, have a long history in MLM / Pyramid schemes.
– Have you heard of these companies called Google and Facebook? Both started from nothing, by people with no history or credentials in their respective fields. Avon is an MLM company, and yet I’m not seeing you complain about their activities. One member of their team has a history, but then again, so do you admittedly, but you share that neither of you were the ones in charge running the scam….or did I miss that factoid?
Fact 4: BB refuses to work with you as a publisher if you contact them with an offer to put traffic out on a well-positioned, high-traffic website. Several high profile people have tried this and were not able to even talk to anyone.
– Guess again. BB doesn’t refuse to work with you as a publisher, in fact they have a program for just that. The difference is, with BB, you’re the one who’s handling your own campaign, not them. They aren’t a publishing house and don’t claim to be, however, they do offer the ability for publishers to benefit from their programs.
Fact 5: BB refuses to work with you as an advertiser, if you contact them with an offer to buy a large order of advertising. Again, several people have tried this and BB is completely unequipped to handle the request.
– BB isn’t to my knowledge or by their description an advertising company, they do however offer programs that allow advertisers to utilize their services in order to advertise their businesses. Again, you’re the one doing the advertising through them, not with them, and once you’ve set up your campaign, it goes to the Broker, not them.
Fact 6: There is no organic traffic. BB offers the “choice network” to members, with no disclaimer whatsoever about it being in “test mode”. However, when pressed on the complete lack of credibility regarding this network, people quickly say “it is in test mode”. This is not disclosed to any members via the dashboard, back office or on the BB website, anywhere.
– So where is your evidence there’s no organic traffic? How are you measuring this? Who are these “people” and do they work for the company, or are they just affiliates with no working knowledge of BB internal processes?
Fact 7: No businessmen (or women) in a free market economy would “discover” a business model as elegant as BB claims to be — and turn it over to anyone willing to sign up for a free membership. There are (supposedly) millions of dollars in cash flow at play here, with margins that would make the executives at Google salivate – yet the patrons who started BB decided to give it all away to the rest of us.
– Again, let me introduce you to Google. Adwords and AdSense are 2 programs they discovered, not previously done by others, and allowed people to sign up for free to benefit from their activities. With Adwords you choose the areas you’re looking to advertise, put up the value of your campaign, and away you go. Google isn’t an advertising company, they do however offer a program for those that want to advertise their business. AdSense gives publishers the means to turn their traffic into revenue. Tell me you haven’t heard of Google shutting people’s accounts down and keeping their money for TOS violations….and yet BB is a scam for doing it too.
Fact 8: BB claims to be in business with Clicksor, yet Clicksor has nowhere near the capacity to even begin to touch the advertising flow-through that BB claims to be driving. You can call Clicksor yourself and confirm this.
– I direct your attention to my response to Fact 1. Blind Networks do offer that capacity, 3+ billion impressions a day in fact. (amazing the information you can find if you look) Even smaller brokers in the ad network offer hundreds of millions of impressions a day. So where did you get your numbers from? Mine come from the horse.
Fact 9: BB is not known to any of the outside advertising reporting agencies who spend 24 hours a day tracking and reporting on the online advertising business. You can call ComScore yourself and confirm this.
– Not an advertising company.
Fact 10: The leaders of BB never attend, present a topic at or even have a presence (like a simple information booth) at any of the big advertising conferences. This is beyond unusual for a “breakthrough” business such as BB.
– Not an advertising company, why would they?
—
The difference between myself and the average BB investor is that I have first-hand experience in the advertising industry. If you want to talk about assumptions, conjecture, supposition, hearsay and coincidence, god only knows how relevant all of those terms are for the affiliates who invest money in to this scheme without actually experiencing the advertising industry. They are not investors, they are speculators.
– BB isn’t in the advertising industry, but you’d actually have to pay attention to what you’re reading, and actually do some research into what you’re talking about…not just the superficial redneck on the street corner kind of research.
—
Again, the difference between myself and Raj Dixit is that I’m not currently trawling the world coaxing individuals to invest their life savings in my alleged ponzi scheme. Most of these individuals have no clue what they are investing in.
– No, you’re promoting your own stuff on the site, even if passively, and it can be said for most people who sign up for online programs, where most have no clue what’s truly involved or understand completely what they’re getting involved in. This really is how the MLM industry works…problem is, from my understanding based on what I’ve read, BB isn’t an MLM or NM company and doesn’t offer a traditional affiliate program. You should look that word up, Affiliate, as it actually means “to adopt or accept as a member, subordinate associate, or branch”. Nowhere does it say “with an MLM or NM company”. Banks, HMO’s, Law Firms all have affiliates.
I promoted a product that was rightfully booted from the market. It was a mistake, but when you are a CPA marketer who promotes hundreds of different products in a year, these mistakes happen. I am much more watchful than I was in 2009.
When I start asking you to invest your savings in my business, that’s when the Dixit comparisons can start.
– So you are more watchful in your efforts, no chance Raj Dixit learned his lesson too huh? Different paths that started at the same realization.
Likewise, when all is said and done and Banners Broker has been closed down, will you have the bottle to admit that you promoted a program that was a scam? Time will tell!
– Are you prepared to retract everything that’s been written, offer your formal and public written apology to everyone for your error, or will you just walk away and shrug your shoulders?
—
You keep talking about evidence and my lack of it. All I have done is explain how the business model that Banners Broker claims to be using does not work. It is not possible, and it is not sustainable.
– So what is your technical and business expertise again that qualifies you to know exactly what their business model is, how it works/doesn’t work, and why? Is this opinion based on fact or conjecture?
You’re looking for hold-in-the-hand evidence when every single ponzi scheme in history has been successful at hiding that evidence from the public spotlight. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a very good ponzi, would it? The evidence only comes to light after the inevitable raid by the authorities.
– And yet you’re sure they’re a ponzi scheme like most posters here and on other boards. You missed your calling sir, for you know what others do not apparently.
I’m finishing my list of questions to send to Banners Broker, and I look forward to hearing their answers.
– As do I, and hopefully will see an unedited version of those answers.
Until then, I can only go by the information that Banners Broker has made public. And that information is a mess of contradictions, lies, distortion and just plain laughable explanations of how this company is making the profits that it claims.
– Again, what’s your expertise? What resources have you used to discover this? So far I’ve seen a poor and misguided attempt at stringing together partial and out-of-context information, based on what could very well be incomplete stories from people saying that BB isn’t what they claim to be. What research did you put into their stories to see if they were valid claims or just people “stirring the pot”?
It is not a single piece of evidence that screams PONZI SCHEME. We get there by deducing that the company cannot possibly be what it claims to be.
– Why can’t it be? Because you say so? Because your limited research and the limited research of others says so? Which one of you “watchdogs” actually stepped up and asked the company to clarify their actions from the very start, rather than go about trying to piece together bits and pieces from sketchy resources, misinformation, out-of-context resources and circumstantial happenings?
—
What could I possibly learn from somebody who views the advertising business as a bunch of panels and traffic packs?
– Again, not an advertising company.
These people understand the Banners Broker ecosystem, but they know next to nothing about the industry they are allegedly a part of.
– Sadly, as most people who purchase online programs are. The issue isn’t in the availability of the programs or who uses them, it’s in the educating of those users so they can make smarter choices. If more people understood what made a scam from case histories and facts, fewer companies would be able to take advantage of these people, let alone be able to start up.
I don’t look to cause conflict. Quite the opposite. I could not care less about you. This article was not written to convince Banners Broker affiliates that they shouldn’t have invested. It is designed to deter potential investors from joining the program. That is the key audience, and one that I am winning quite handily at the top of Google.
– So you assume I’m a BB affiliate, rather than someone like yourself who’s interested in actually sticking to the truth than becoming a hate-monger? You really do assume a lot don’t you? Makes me wonder what you actually DO know.
So, tell me, why does this post grind on you? What difference does it make to you that a random blogger criticizes Banners Broker?
– People like you cause problems for legitimate and scam companies alike. You don’t really care what consequences your actions bring about. A legit company may survive the onslaught of comments intact, however, the business that’s been lost, the staff who’ve had to endure hateful comments and public criticisms as a result of your bantering…what do you do about that? Nothing, what do you care if people’s credibility is damaged over your inaccurate assumptions? Do you take any responsibility for those that would act on the things you say? Of course not. You’re all about you, your sun-burt balls, and what you can get out of it.
If I’m wrong, then Banners Broker can sit back and ignore me, or send their legal team to request the article be removed (won’t work). But they haven’t. What does that tell you?
– It says that they’re not willing to go off half-cocked with bits and pieces, that dealing with real issues like the matter in India is of more importance than a blogger…for now…but, you prove my point. You don’t care what results your actions incur, just theirs.
You are right in a sense that I am attracted to pain and misery. I find the whole nature of ponzi schemes and their clingy investors to be an excellent (and morbid) case study of psychological flaws and cognitive biases. The greed, the blind, the completely irrationality… you’re right. It intrigues me.
– So you’re a psychology student now? This is an experiment in understanding the cognitive thought process of people interested in working with companies online? You don’t want to pay your bills? Wouldn’t like a better car, or home? What’s irrational to some may be rational to others. If you want to learn, try doing it in a means that doesn’t risk harm to others.
But again, let me bring this back to you. Why does any of what I say affect you? Why does it compel you to come here and defend your program so religiously?
– Someone I cared for deeply worked for company that people like you accused of being a scam. They were beat up to the point of being mentally handicapped now. After the company was acquitted and absolved of all charges against them, who repairs this person and returns them to “business as usual”? All because people like you take no responsibility in what they write or who they write to or what they say…it’s just traffic to you afterall, the current flavor. It’s just like the radio DJ’s that caused that nurse to commit suicide. You don’t think of what message you’re putting out there, or the effect that message will have on others. That’s why I care.
—
Ahh, there we have it. The answer to why you come here and defend BB so religiously.
– I actually found this blog by accident, but after reading it, and how you’ve handled yourself and the information, I stuck around.
—
Yes, I’m after the truth. And through the two posts so far (and the 3rd to follow), I’m perfectly content that I’ve found it.
– If you really wanted the truth, you’d have waited until you had all the pieces together, corroborated your findings with contacting the company and asking for answers to well thought out and researched questions, then released your findings to us, your readership base as either an objective article on who BB really is and what they’re doing, or an accurate condemnation of their activities and substance for authorities. Instead, it’s a mish-mash of supposition based on inaccurate interpretations and questionable research techniques. I’m glad you’re content, so far you’re the only one benefitting.
That doesn’t mean I don’t intend on traveling to Canada, because I do, and I will. But I’ll go when it suits me, not when an agitated and scared affiliates tells me to.
– Yes, once again, because you’re after the truth, and the truth can wait because once it’s out, you won’t benefit from the notoriety or attention like you have been. That’s the truth. In the last 3 months, your traffic rank has jumped over 40,000 points. Prior to that, your traffic has been sporadic…jumping on the BB bandwagon has been good for you.
—
I am only a problem to you and Banners Broker if my claims are correct.
– You don’t have to be right or wrong to be a problem.
If you’re right, then yes, BB has a problem in your voice saying what it is.
If you’re wrong, you’ve cost them income, and caused people who would have benefited from the program sooner to not benefit. You’ll also have tarnished the name of a good company, but you don’t take any responsibility for that.
—
What do you make of this, Paul? Another hater with a lust for Jerry Springer?
We seem to be popping up everywhere!
– There’s never a shortage of roaches, funny though how they all scatter when the lights come on…like roaches, they always make things dirtier, and they survive on their own crap.
Facts…heh.
Due Diligence…heh.
Even the best intentions, if improperly thought out and acted upon, can deliver the worst results.
Pauly, think of it this way, would you debate how the heart works with a cardiac surgeon?
You are trying to debate online advertising with someone who is IN THE BUSINESS. In fact we are EXPERTS in online advertising and spend hundreds of thousands, if not millions a month on online advertising and know OUR industry. What you are spouting about Blind Networks and online advertising is complete and utter rubbish. You do not understand the industry, what you understand is what BB explain to you and that is not correct at all, it’s half truths and smoke screens. Do you not get it? You are debating about an industry that we live in and know inside out.
A blind network is not what you think it is and I can assure you if BB was doing the volume they claim to be they would know and be able to disclose EXACTLY who they were doing business with. They wouldn’t be working through a blind network with the CPMs they claim to charge, that would be purely premium traffic. You guys do not understand that the CPMs they charge you for your “panels” are on the high end of the industry and the fact that they claim they can resell at double your CPM to a third party (let alone through a blind network) is laughable. To give you an example I can buy a shed load of excellent quality traffic on sites I want to target at under $2 CPM and BB would be selling lower quality traffic to their advertisers through the blind network at close to $20. Give me a break.
Let me say it again, YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW OUR INDUSTRY WORKS and that’s what BB prey on, but it is also their downfall as they cannot properly debate their business model with someone with even a cursory knowledge of our industry, let alone experts like Finch.
Oh and thanks for your War and Peace lengthed comment, it helps to push this article/post even further up the search engines and rank it for even more keywords. Another thing you plants and BB employees fail to grasp, i.e. more comments and words on this page them more traffic it will get. Keep it coming!
Apparently you can’t read…I’m not with BB, and once again, I’ve done my research, BB isn’t an advertising company…so exactly where are you getting your information from? I’m not a plant, or a hired entity, I’m one person doing their due diligence from the other side of the fence. I believe in innocent until PROVEN guilty, not assumed guilty.
I’ve been in commercial advertising, and I’ve dealt in online advertising. I know how they both work thank you, and the misleading and misrepresenting you’re offering isn’t appreciated. I’ve also looked into what the “blind network” actually is, and if you’re the expert you claim to be, then you would know it actually does exist, it’s what it’s claimed to be, and is mirrored on the mobile internet as well. Where are you “experts” getting your information if your arguments are so easily debunked by googling the term and doing some research? Weird huh?
As for what you can get with other companies…have you ever bought a drink at the movies or a sports event? Inflated prices anyone?…yet they still sell them. I wonder why anyone would buy a $6.50 cup of beer or a $4.50 cup of coke knowing they can get it cheaper elsewhere? A mystery to be sure.
Nothing you’ve posted qualifies as an expert opinion in anything actually relevant to the issue at hand. You all think there’s a compensation plan, which there isn’t, because that would mean they’re running an affiliate program…even I have figured out they aren’t. Experts you say?
What’s confusing is all the so-called experts who think they know what they’re talking about, but haven’t done any actual research into discovering if they’re right or not.
So where is it you’re getting your “facts” again? Show your hand and I’ll show mine.
The higher the climb, the longer the fall.
So Pauly, why exactly are you here?
If I were Finch, I wouldn’t risk my life going to see them. They are cult people and can cause harm to people who are against them. In Cambodia, some of them are gangsters who threaten to beat anyone who talks badly about BB.
Nick is right. You can get quality traffic with CPM of 2usd. Actually on Facebook, you can get CPM as cheap as 0.02USD for some countries. I found out that those Cambodian recruiters have never done online advertising before, but they claim to be experts in making money online.
Based on the banner brokers, if you buy the green package at 415, some claim you will double your money every 3 months.
Thus, in a year, you will earn 415*2^4=6,640usd
in 2 years, 415*2^8=106,240
in 3 years, 415*2^12=1,699,840
in 4 years, 415*2^16=27,197,440
in 5 years, 415*2^20=435,159,040
in 6 years, 415*2^24=6,962,544,640
in 7 years, 415*2^28=111,400,714,240
in 8 years, 415*2^32=1.78 trillion dollars
in 9 years, 415*2^36=28 trillion dollars
Thus, you just buy the green package, sit, and in 9 years’ time you will earn more than the total U.S. GDP. What a revolutionary way to earn money! You will be a millionaire in 3 year.
See the reference in Cambodia Banner Brokers http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=211418528991106&set=a.211418135657812.55047.100003688822758&type=3&theater
. Based on the recruiter’s explanation, in 1-3 years, you will earn 100,000 USD a month, which is 1.2 million dollars a year. Yes, that will solve the world poverty. They just need 9 years to overtake the United States’ GDP. Congrats to all BB people. In 10-12 years’ time, you can buy the United States. Good Jobs and Keep recruiting and sputtering your lies, stupidity, and craziness.
Pauly, there is no such thing as “The Blind Network”. A blind network is just a network that you can’t choose or see where your ads are showing (but they can usually optimise your traffic off a pixel fire).
It’s like saying I am going to go to The Chinese Restaurant. When you Banners Brokers zombies keep talking about The Blind Network it makes you sound foolish and completely unaware of the online advertising marketplace.
Just to get it into your brainwashed head again, there is NO SUCH THING as THE BLIND NETWORK. Loads of networks operate as blind networks not just one or two behemoths.
If you are not a member of BB what the hell are you doing here and how do you know how they operate?
Oh and if you don’t believe me and want to see how ignorant and dumb you BB zombies are just Google “The Blind Network” and see what comes up on the first page of Google. Oooooh guess what? All results are pages about Banners Broker. Why? Because it is a figment of their imagination and they are the only ones out there who use that term!
I might be brain dead, but I still don’t get it… Taken from the Banners Broker FAQ page:
The Banners Broker Combo Package is a brand new opportunity in the online advertising marketplace. It is designed to give non-website owners the ability to join in on the action. The first of its kind, the Combo Package allows you to play the role of advertiser and publisher – simultaneously. You advertise your business through the Banners Broker network just the way any advertiser would. At the same time, Banners Broker creates your very own virtual online store where you earn advertising revenue for the ad impressions we generate for you.
What my limited brains understand from this is: I pay BB 20 dollars, they advertise my business (that I don’t have) through their own network on my virtual (not in actual fact, form, or name) website and three weekslater I’m paid 40 dollars. (virtual definition taken from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/virtual). This sounds like a bigger trick than Jesus did when he was Feeding the Multitude. I mean, somebody is advertising a non-existing business on non-existing websites and that is generating money. What exactly is generating the extra 20 dollars?
Grandao, that is exactly what has always puzzled me. Where does the money come from? Where is the proof of the value of this company, other than the money that the affiliates pay in?
Especially when some affiliates are still talking about “doubling your money”. If every affilate doubled their money over and over agin, there wouldn’t be enough in the world to pay them all!
I’ve looked up blind networks (not, note THE blind network as BB affiliates would have it!) and from what I’ve read, you can have millions of impressions and still generate relatively little money. I’ve seen mention of 60 million ad impressions per day generating approx US$7,000 per day. So how do BB manage to raise enough money to pay out all the millions they claim to their associates? I just don’t get it. Apologies in advance if I’ve misunderstood something here, not being familiar with online advertising, but even so something just does not add up.
The only thing I can think of is that it’s the members’ money that is paid in which is being paid out. As Finch and others have pointed out….
If anyone stops, thinks and asks questions, and ceases to be blinded by the dollar signs in their “e-wallet”, they too would see that, to be as generous as possible, the whole thing is questionable.
Unfortunately it is my recent experience that you cannot help some people. You can lay out the evidence, lay out the questions, appeal to their common sense, but their greed at the end of the day wins out over reason and they still think it is worth a flutter.
In which case I’ve only one word for them, I’m afraid: Idiots.
@Della Cate: agree… It sounds like selling a 10K dollar car that I don’t have to a person that does not exist and therefor receiving 20K dollar… But I’m sure it’s my limited IQ that prevents me from understanding higher math.
As for scam / fraud warnings its as simple as this:
See ANY of related sites with top google results. FE F.B.I. (Federal anti-crime-agency in the US), us.gov (President of the United States of America) , Royal Canadian Mounted Police
What to Do:
If you’re faced with any of the warning signs of a scareware scam or suspect a problem, shut down your browser. Don’t click “No” or “Cancel,” or even the “x” at the top right corner of the screen. Some scareware is designed so that any of those buttons can activate the program. If you use Windows, press Ctrl + Alt + Delete to open your Task Manager, and click “End Task.” If you use a Mac, press Command + Option + Q + Esc to “Force Quit.”
If you get an offer, check out the program by entering the name in a search engine. The results can help you determine if the program is on the up-and-up.
http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0263-free-security-scans
Money flow:
Who …
Where …
When …
Why …
What for … does move money.
In my biased and shallow view:
The § for Stellar Point DOESNT LOOK BAD, be it
– regular scam 2.0
– terminate business and sell the technology to BIG ONES
– get a BIG ONE investor
– try to start new products to get the next BIG ONE
Whats next ?
If the prophet dont move the mountain should.
Some of you folks at Realscam, BBG, or Finch may ask for a conference before or after the Manchester Event, February 22/23 2013
Finch says: January 12, 2013 at 5:45 am
D. Pressed – I haven’t replied to any of your recent posts because they are long, off-topic, boring and invariably full of shit. Just like this most recent one.
Rhetorical statements:
1) I am a victim of BB by Finch’s own definition.
2) I have never supported, promoted or in any way been positive towards Banners Broker on this blog.
3) When Ditto Ditto accused me on personally insulting him, he reckoned it was because he and Finch had ‘touched a raw nerve’
3) With reference to one of my recent ‘long, off-topic, boring and invariably full of shit’ posts Finch said:
‘As for what happens on RealScam or the Mirror blog, I really don’t care. You’re the one that’s talking about it.
Posted by FINCH in reply to Phil Hendy on REALSCAM:
‘Here it is, Phil: Banners Broker accused of being Ponzi scheme – Investigations’
‘it’ being a link to THE MIRROR BLOG!
Rhetorical question:
I wonder what Steven Howard would think of my rhetorical post?
🙁
Postscript to my experience on this forum:
If you do read this Steven, good luck and keep up the good work. You have my empathy.
Postscript to my postscript:
D.Pressed is so disturbed and disappointed by the way he has been treated recently, he has lost the ability to count up to four! 😮
I think that means it really, really IS time for me to go and leave this to the ‘experts’.
I love how everyone twists the information to suit their needs.
You guys are not going to be happy until BB is closed, regardless of whether they are guilty or not.
Conveniently my last post linking various websites speaking about the blind network was removed.
To clarify, there are only 2 blind networks, however, they are specific to the internet and mobile industry. All websites on the internet that do not serve ads to mobile devices fall under one version of the blind network, while all designed for mobile devices use another blind network for their ads. These blind networks are controlled by a small grouping of companies (10-20), and these companies provide BB with the traffic you say they can’t be getting.
Looking at why you can’t find the ads…you won’t be able to using blind networks. It states that right in the description of what a blind network is, yet you conveniently ignore that information claiming BB made it up. You can choose certain information regarding targeting your ads, but you won’t know which site and where on the site your ad will appear. You guys just love stating how BB doesn’t have a track of ads you can follow…I feel like I’m speaking to the short bus here.
As the post that was deleted asked, who here would pay $6.50 for a cup of beer, or $4.50 for a cup of coke at a sporting event? Most people do, and there’s how the system works. BB charges premium prices for their product, and the manner in which they present it allows you to profit. Why is it so hard for some of you to figure this out? I thought you were all intelligent experts? I’m not even in the industry or connected and I’ve got this understood.
How many of you said that Google’s AdSense wouldn’t work? What about AdWords? I’m sure you’ll state the obvious, Google has traffic…well the Brokers BB uses have traffic. You’ll argue that Google pays its people and doesn’t cancel accounts…yet all you have to do is research to know that’s a false statement. So BB is a Ponzi because it allows affiliates to generate an income, using a business model you’re unfamiliar with, and can’t figure out? You’re so busy applying what you know about MLM and affiliate programs to BB that you failed to realize, they’re not MLM nor are they an affiliate program, they’re really just reselling what other companies have provided them to work with, created a program that works and generate revenue for themselves and others…it’s not illegal or Ponzi, it’s business. What you’re all doing in pissing in their pool because you don’t understand how they do it. Sounds to me like a bunch of spoiled children.
Also, if you actually knew what you were talking about, you would know that they cap earnings at a certain level as every company does, but apparently common sense is not so common here….anything to try and confuse the issues to make yourselves seem self-important.
How is it you’re all experts exactly when you couldn’t do your research and come up with the same conclusions as a result?
All you had to do was actually read and pay attention to what you were reading. I’d be embarrassed if I were you to call yourself an expert.
“To clarify, there are only 2 blind networks, however, they are specific to the internet and mobile industry. All websites on the internet that do not serve ads to mobile devices fall under one version of the blind network, while all designed for mobile devices use another blind network for their ads. These blind networks are controlled by a small grouping of companies (10-20), and these companies provide BB with the traffic you say they can’t be getting.”
This is 100% crap. Only 2 blind networks?????? what are you talking about. Read my post,there are thousands of blind networks, I can start one tomorrow if I want. You don’t have a clue what you are talking about, your ignorance is laughable.
Pauly H:
“As the post that was deleted asked, who here would pay $6.50 for a cup of beer, or $4.50 for a cup of coke at a sporting event? Most people do, and there’s how the system works. BB charges premium prices for their product, and the manner in which they present it allows you to profit. Why is it so hard for some of you to figure this out? I thought you were all intelligent experts? I’m not even in the industry or connected and I’ve got this understood.”
A better way of putting that would be:
“who here would pay $26.50 for a cup of beer, or $24.50 for a cup of coke at a sporting event from one vendor when everyone else was selling them for $6.50/$4.50 ?”
Because when it all boils down, that’s what we’re talking about here. The price of banner advertising has collapsed, with even the big players making huge loses, yet if BB are to be believed they, in a cutthroat market constantly manage to sell banners that no-one can find, for many, many times the going rate.
Don’t you find it even the tiniest bit suspicious that during a major economic downturn when advertisers are tightening their belts, a company who you claim sells at “premium prices”, which we know are massively more than others in the same market, remains totally unaffected, even to the point that its profits grow and grow, whilst everyone else is losing money or at best treading water?
Not only are profits on the up for this wunderkind of the advertising world, but the more affiliates/stakeholders it has, the more profit each of them makes. Doesn’t that strike you as odd? The more slices of the cake, the bigger each slice is.
I don’t know what your background is, Pauly, but where I come from that just doesn’t add up, and that’s before we even look at the career criminals behind the company, or its banking practices, or the way it treats its affiliates if they question it, or its reluctance to take those it claims utter falsehoods against it, to court.
Pauly – I can appreciate that you have at least tried to debate some facts, but your facts are wrong. That’s pretty much all there is to it.
I’m not sure where you’ve been reading about the alleged 2 Blind Networks that govern the web, but they do not exist. I suggest you go and do some more research, or speak to a professional.
Like Nick said, if you Google “the blind network”, the only explanations that you will find are written by Banners Broker affiliates. What does that tell you?
As for the ‘deleted post’, I haven’t deleted any posts. I’ve been ill in bed for the last 24 hours. Feel free to post it again if it’s important.
sharon says:
January 12, 2013 at 9:50 am
i have made money with banners broker. I invested £300 and a year later am withdrawing $9000 every month. so how is that a scam?
You did WHAT now? You INVESTED £300? I thought Banners Broker wasn’t an investment? Regardless of that, does it not strike you as just a bit odd that having invested such a small sum, in a “business” that requires no real work, you are able to withdraw a yearly income which equates to an annual ROI of 22500% ?
Let me put that into perspective for you; the return Bernie Madoff’s investors received were barely into double digits, yet it was described as “incredible”. Here YOU are, claiming an ROI of TWO THOUSAND times MORE and asking “how is that a scam?”
Even if we ignore the fact that you’ve called it an investment, let’s just say it’s a “business opportunity”. You’re someone who has invested a very small amount of money to buy into BB as an “affiliate”. There is, according to BB “no risk” in this business and one can’t fail to make money at it.
How is this possible? We’re talking about one of the most cutthroat markets there is, where prices have been slashed to the bone, one where even Microsoft’s banner advert arm, aQuantive have taken a $6 BILLION bath.
Read that again, Microsoft have LOST $6 billion on their banner brokering venture, yet a newstart company, the team behind which consists almost entirely of those behind the ICF World Homes ponzi, none of whom come from an advertising or marketing background, have from nothing managed to take the market by storm, returning (using your figures) a profit so eye-wateringly large that it can offer you, a mere affiliate,a return in the tens of thousands of percent, without once coming to the attention of the FT, or Forbes or indeed any of the rest of the mainstream media.
Except for the court case. And the numerous articles in the Irish (and now British) press. None of these articles chart the meteoric rise of this amazing company though. Without fail they all suggest that it’s a ponzi.
Where are the articles about Chis Smith? Why haven’t we seen him on the front of TIME magazine? The man has single-handedly (or rather he had, until the other 5 founders popped up last week) created a business from scratch that not only generates massive profits, but shares them selflessly with the poor and downtrodden.
Again, you have to wonder why we’re not seeing Mr Smith lauded as a hero (outwith BB, of course), surely any company with a marketing/pr dept worth its salt would capitalise on this?
Pauly: It is fun to read your defense of BB. Thought you would like a blast from the past from the “official” BB blog when this first launched. This is how they explained BB, and I quote:
“November 1, 2010
The Product
What is Banners Broker all about?
Some say we know a thing or two about banners. Bur really we’re an entire integrated marketing solution to help maximize your online revenue potential.
Until now, distinguished publishers were required to have fully functional websites that generated significant traffic. Luckily, our Ad-Pub Combo Package is a “rebel that defies the rules and regulations for revenue earners” in the online advertising industry. Now all you need is a desire to earn through one of the most lucrative advertising mediums in today’s market. No website or traffic stats necessary.
How it works: We supply you with “inventory (online ad space) on various websites owned and operated by Banners Broker” – think of it as your own profitable online real estate. Each of these sites already has a sizeable amount of existing traffic. So each time your ad space produces impressions for selected banners on the site, you earn a commission.”
Hmm, they provide you ad space on various websites that “BB owns and operates.” Their Ad-Pub Combo is a “rebel that defies the rules and regulations for revenue earners” in the online advertising industry. Also notice that there is no mention of their “famed blind network.” This didn’t start until Jan of 2012. Hmmmm.
So they had this ‘special’ rebel but they change it in Jan 2012 to a blind network? Yeah right. Here’s a hint for you: The special rebel program wasn’t drawing enough people to their Ponzi, so they came up with the blind network because no-one knew what it was and couldn’t explain it, even BB. They keep chaning the terms as to what it means. I think we are now in the 4th or 5th evolution of the meaning.
Would you like for me to post their explanation of their comp plan back in November of 2010 when the said they were the first ever straight line double cycler? Don’t you just love screen shots? I know I do, but this is not a Ponzi.
@Sharon: You are lying. I have been in longer than that. I also, put in more money and have a considerable downline. There is no way you are making that much. Stop telling lies.
BBinsider says:
January 14, 2013 at 12:49 am
@Sharon: You are lying. I have been in longer than that. I also, put in more money and have a considerable downline. There is no way you are making that much. Stop telling lies.
If you don’t profit from your downline what difference does having a “considerable” one make to the profitability of an affiliates business?
@Theseus: That was my first ever post here. That’s a bit of a leading question.
@Pauly
“To clarify, there are only 2 blind networks”.
———————–
Pauly, you really ought to check you facts before posting, what you’ve said is total and utter rubbish.
Here are some of the more popular ones
Adfonic, Admoda/Adultmoda, BuzzCity, InMobi, LeadBolt, Madvertise, Mojiva.
Would you mind telling me which of those companies aren’t serving ads on blind networks ?
BBinsider says:
January 14, 2013 at 1:36 am
@Theseus: That was my first ever post here. That’s a bit of a leading question.
You cited it in relation to the amount of income that the other affiliate claimed to make, why mention having a “considerable downline” if it’s not germane?
I’ll ask again, if you don’t profit from your downline what difference does having a “considerable” one make to the profitability of an affiliates business?
When you care to ask a non-leading question. I will be more than happy to answer it.
Note: I’ve had to separate the comments as it was starting to take forever to load.
For the first 400 comments, click the link ‘older comments’.
Machinces like BB grows up every day. Some of them survives years, some of them days.
Finch, I totally agree what You have written about this system. But as long as it works, I don’t care who will be banged when the system collapses. I believe people knows what they do. It’s all about the risk. You don’t like it – You don’t have to.
If You can afford to take a risk, try it. Maybe You will be lucky, and You will stop beeing so intolerant and probably jelous.
I really enjoyed reading this article and the posts below it. I’m from Germany and it seems as the wave comes finally over now to Germany. What I really can’t believe is that people I know who are not really dumb or not educated enough believe in this system. They really come up with sentences like “do it like Google” and want to impress me with screen shots of their virtual money. I mean I’m interested in such systems as I was part of the biggest ponzi in the late 90’s. It was the stock exchange and the dotcom bubble. Every idiot pushed new money into the marked and that made the stocks going through the ceiling. After no fresh money went into the system it collapsed and you can read it in the history what happened.
Really good work and I hope I can convince people around me to not invest money into this.
IT’S ALL ABOUT THE RISK.
This system is not for people who barely can buy food for their kids or themselves.
To take part in this lottery, you must afford it.
If You don’t like it – stop being hater and just leave it.
Stupid people are like weak animals – they will die in the jungle.
Tolerance is what You all have to learn.
Jason – Except Banners Broker is not branded as a ‘risk’, but as an ‘opportunity’.
It’s not aimed at people who can assess the risk, but at those who won’t even try to.
@Jason: You said: Stupid people are like weak animals – they will die in the jungle.
Tolerance is what You all have to learn.
Do you see the irony in that? You are saying others need to be tolerant. HaHa!
BBinsider says:
January 14, 2013 at 2:41 am
When you care to ask a non-leading question. I will be more than happy to answer it.
What is wrong with answering the question I asked? You, not I, made connection between the amount that can be earned by being a BB affiliate and the number of people you have in your downline. Why mention it if is not germane?
Refusing to elaborate only serves to confirm that there is indeed a correlation…..
Hi BBinsider, I’ll gladly answer just about any question YOU may have, in the meantime here’s a couple I’d like you to answer for me if you’ll be so kind.
1) What is Chris Smiths “REAL” name ?.
2) Who are the other four founding members of BB (Chris, Raj and who else)?
3) Which blind network are most of BB’s ads served on?.
4) Can you name one organisation or company that are currently advertising on BB’s blind network ?
5) Would you if guaranteed to be able to keep your anonymity (given in writing), be prepared to meet with a journalist and answer questions in person?
Please Note :- My ultimate aim is to be able to prove that BB is a genuine business, it always has been, unfortunately to date, quite the opposite is happening, just about everything I’ve so far discovered **appears** to indicate it is some form of elaborate scam, let’s work together to sort this out once and for all.
PS :- I’m prepared to converse by email regarding the journalist if required.
i have been in banners for 3 weeks and on my first 10,000 withdrawall… oh yes come on !! woohoo .. :-0
Hello all.
I am the International Public Relations Director for Stellar Point, speaking on behalf of Banners Broker as was mentioned.
I have been in contact with Martin with regard to his visiting our offices and learning first-hand who we are and what we’re about. He mentioned he was sending me a list of questions he’d like answered.
As I wait for him to send me his questions, I’ll simply state, that I’ll do my best to be as clear and direct as I can in answering those questions, however, there may be some questions that I’ll defer until Martin has been here and learned the answers for himself.
I’m not in the habit of jousting online, so I’m going to simply ask that if you’ve got comments for me, that you do so with respect. I’m here to address your concerns regarding Banners Broker, not get into flame wars or fights. If you want answers, I’ll do everything I can to give them to you. If you’re looking for a fight, you will find my silence in response.
That all being said, I look forward to addressing your concerns.
Terry Stern
International Public Relations Director
Stellar Point
* * *
I’ve placed an open invite to Martin, and I’ll open that up even further.
If there’s a member of the press that would like to contact me in order to get answers first-hand, I invite them to do so.
Thank You.
Dear Terry
I am glad to see someone official from BB posting here, and, I note, on Real Scam forum too.
I would be grateful if you could answer thr following questions please:-
I would like a clear and simple explanation of how BB actually works in plain, simple English that a non-technical person, like myself, can understand. (Please do your best to avoid any jargon and slang – please assume that i know nothing about it!) I would be grateful if you could include some explanation of “traffic packs”, why they are deemed necessary, and what value they add to the BB system.
Leading on from that, I am also curious to know why your affiliate members are invited to join in, and why the originators of BB simply did not keep the system for themselves and enrich only themselves (and presumably their nearest and dearest). What is the additional benefit to the BB business of having over 200,000 affiliate members, and how do you see the system growing over the next few years?
I have several other questions too, but I am sure other people here are also dying to ask, so I will leave it there for now.
Looking forward to your replies.
Kind regards.
Sorry Theseus. You continue to ask a leading question. I told you already that I had an issue with that. The fact that you continue to ask it won’t change that fact.
Seven Howard, to answer your questions:
1) I don’t know. I was under the impression, Chris Smith is his real name.
2) Again, I don’t know. I thought Chris Smith and Kul Josun were the founding members and Kul had moved on after Portugal last year.
3) I don’t know.
4) No, I can’t.
5) No, I don’t think it would achieve anything. There has already been interviews with people way further up the chain than me. What did that achieve?
BBinsider says:
January 14, 2013 at 12:47 pm
Sorry Theseus. You continue to ask a leading question. I told you already that I had an issue with that. The fact that you continue to ask it won’t change that fact.
I’m open to suggestions as to how best to phrase the question so that you don’t consider it to be a leading one 🙂
You are insinuating a certain view on my part regarding having a downline. I have never expressed a view either way. The fact that you are making this leap suggests to me, that you have no interest in what answers I give to your questions.
BBinsider says:
January 14, 2013 at 1:09 pm
You are insinuating a certain view on my part regarding having a downline. I have never expressed a view either way. The fact that you are making this leap suggests to me, that you have no interest in what answers I give to your questions.
I’m merely basing my question on your assertion that the previous poster couldn’t have such a large income because “. I have been in longer than that. I also, put in more money and have a considerable downline.”
You specifically mentioned your downline, so I’m puzzled, if it is not germane to the amount of revenue generated, that you chose to mention it. Are you saying then that there is NO correlation between the size of your downline and revenue?
I never said that
ITS ALL ABOUT THE templets. Oups. Tablets ? Whatever, that yellow, purple, green, gold or whatever BANNERS.
If ya start with a green pack package (green, blue, purple, yellow banner?) §415 in 2012/01 (§830 in 2012/02) that 41% profit/per month. In 2013/01 thats §10,000 in worthless banners. You may expect a still stuning return of 24%/month but with your 20 traffic things and executive andmin fees its rather 8% = §900.
If Smith and Dixit slow down the sytem to 50%: max $600 plus for the e-wallet ./.. $500 executive fees and 1000 traffic packs -> one of five acounts terminated.
The rest of the gang may argue; “Not so good, but its not me. Who cares, I’m in any kind of virtzal, e-cash, or real money.
*”master” will be $2,500/month for 25 traffic packs, “prezident” will be $10,000/month for 50 traffic packs?
BTW for any BannersBroker-buff a buffer of 10% or better 25% in the e-cash ./.. “banners” may be resonable for the next few weeks.
BBinsider says:
January 14, 2013 at 1:41 pm
I never said that
Either there is or there isn’t, the fact that you’re unwilling to comment either way suggests that there is indeed a link between the size of your downline and the ability to generate revenue.
I am not unwilling to comment. Stop jumping to conclusions.
Just to clarify something here, though I know it will get lost in translation when the shills brains attempt to decode it…
Any sort of ‘Blind’ network does not refer to ‘THE network’, or one of two ‘networks’, it is a term used to describe a method of advertising. A company, such as BannersBroker (if they were legit), supplies a network of websites and publishers to its advertisers. The company can decide to charge a certain amount per impression on this network and, at the same time, not allow the advertiser to choose which website or publishing spot their ad will appear on. This is the pure and simple definition of a blind network.
There is no way in hell any advertiser would simply say, take my ads, I really don’t care where they end up. An advertiser ALWAYS wants to know where their advertisements are shown in order to maximize the profitability of the advertisement. If the ad is shown on a website that shows products that are higher in overall quality than that of the advertisers, the advertiser would certainly not want to have their ad displayed on that website.
There is not a single company offering a blind network for advertisers that will not let you see where your ad is placed. It is proof of purchase. Could any of you pro-BBers honestly say that you would pay for a plant, and on top of not deciding where it will be planted, you never get to see it? What is the difference here?
If you were giving money to a pro-environment charity that uses your money to plant trees, sure, my opinion would fall apart. But you are not paying a charity. You are paying in order to receive more money in return. AN INVESTMENT.
I for one would want to see that my money is well spent, as such would any advertiser when placing ads on webpages. As such would any other INVESTOR attempting to gain a RETURN.
Do you think that people throw money into stocks and not take a good hard look at what they are putting their money into first? You are all doing the same thing here. You are providing capital to grow a business. In return, you get a share of the profits. Does that not sound familiar?
BBinsider says:
January 14, 2013 at 2:08 pm
I am not unwilling to comment. Stop jumping to conclusions.
Comment away then…..
Ask a STRAIGHT question and I will!
@Terry – As a PR person I think it would be germane to firstly address all the points and questions that have been put forward both in Finch’s article and the comments underneath before asking for more questions. You have not addressed anything in your comment.
But if you want a specific question here’s one, how can you sell banner impressions to your members at above market rate and then claim to resell them after that for double the price, which is FAR higher than prevailing rates, especially when the prices of banner impressions is actually dropping over time as supply far outweighs demand and is increasing exponentially.
And if your company actually has found a magical formula that allows you to do this then why are you giving this opportunity to little old ladies in Cambodia rather than just raising capital yourselves on the open market (investment banks, venture capital etc.) and in turn making your company a behemoth?
Saying you are doing it to “help” other people makes no sense as you could easily donate all your potential profits to people much more needy than many of your members if you are not in it for the money.
^ +1
Della,
The whole point of Finch’s visit here was so he could do that for you, rather than me do it, and everyone debate how it’s a ponzi and how I’m lying to you.
As for why invite affiliates? Simple, Mr. Smith wanted to create a program whereby he could feed his family and provide them a better way of life. Rather than do it himself, which would take a lot of time and resources to accomplish, he created an affiliate program that could help him accomplish that goal. It’s through having a large affiliate base, BannersBroker is able to leverage the traffic used to attract larger ad networks and develop additional products. We’ve already stated that in the beginning, no ad networks would talk to us with the exception of a smaller network. Well, as the result of doing business over the past 2 years, the company has been able to attract larger networks to work with them. This is allowing us to develop and offer new and better products for our affiliates to use in building their businesses, which will continue to attract the largest of ad networks to support us. Since 2002/2003 Google has developed an affiliate base of Millions using their programs, which feeds their advertising engine, and allows people to develop an income. BannersBroker created their program to capitalize on that model, but in using affiliates, they could grow faster, and through using modern technologies, many pioneered by Google, they’re able to offer new products to their affiliates, which continues the growth cycle.
Here’s a question. Why did Google, a search engine, become involved in the advertising market through the creation of products that appealed to both publishers and self-advertisers alike? Simple, increased revenue, increased traffic….leverage they used to develop additional products and earn greater revenue. Why didn’t they create a ‘combo’ package? In their case, the machine wasn’t there for such a program to work back then, however, today, to do so would actually work against them instead of for them due to their diversification.
Google’s AdSense and AdWords programs simply put, buy and sell traffic. BannersBroker’s Advertiser and Publisher programs buy and sell traffic. Where Google already had traffic that came from their search engine, BannersBroker uses the traffic needs of thier affiliate base as leverage to attract ad networks, affiliates and increase their traffic. Google isn’t an advertising company, neither is BannersBroker. What BannersBroker does, is leverage the needs of their affiliates, to generate revenue, then pays the affiliates based on what those affiliates have generated….just like Google does.
Anonymous,
My suggestion is to re-google “Blind Network” and take a look at what it’s defined as by sites not affiliated with BannersBroker, in addition, take a look at mobile blind networks, as they’re the same thing except for the mobile industry.
If you aren’t going to accept that information as being correct, then there’s really little I can say to sway you, as at that point, you’re less interested in the facts or truth as you are in creating a debate or argument.
Thank You.
—
As for why invite affiliates? Simple, Mr. Smith wanted to create a program whereby he could feed his family and provide them a better way of life.
—
As Nick says, the most efficient way to do so would be to take his model to a venture capitalist, or a bank, and accept the funding. A bank or a venture capitalist would require only a fraction of the return that BannersBroker is allegedly paying its affiliates. If Chris Smith is really worried about feeding his family, wouldn’t you agree that he’s chosen the far riskier option?
If you are staring down the barrel, desperate to raise money to feed your family, you don’t start by opening a charity.
—
It’s through having a large affiliate base, BannersBroker is able to leverage the traffic used to attract larger ad networks and develop additional products.
—
What additional products?
What larger ad networks?
BannersBroker may have a large affiliate base, but it didn’t always have one. How was the company able to undercut every single market average when it was just a small fish claiming to be a straightline cycler doubler?
—
We’ve already stated that in the beginning, no ad networks would talk to us with the exception of a smaller network.
—
Clicksor, I presume? A company that reports only a tiny fraction of the revenue that BannersBroker claims to have paid out to its affiliates…
—
This is allowing us to develop and offer new and better products for our affiliates to use in building their businesses, which will continue to attract the largest of ad networks to support us.
—
This is a real mish-mash. What products are you referring to? The only products that Banners Broker sells are ‘panels’ and ‘packages’, which are whimsical terms for what the rest of the advertising community calls ‘impressions’.
Secondly, what businesses? The affiliate businesses consist almost entirely of packages and panels, a currency that exists only in the world of BannersBroker. These businesses add no value to the real world.
Finally, you say that attracting the largest ad networks to support you is an end goal. Why would an advertiser choose to work with you when it can go direct to these ad networks for a mere fraction of the cost? Why pay your mark-up when there’s an obvious, cheaper alternative?
—
Since 2002/2003 Google has developed an affiliate base of Millions using their programs, which feeds their advertising engine, and allows people to develop an income. BannersBroker created their program to capitalize on that model, but in using affiliates, they could grow faster, and through using modern technologies, many pioneered by Google, they’re able to offer new products to their affiliates, which continues the growth cycle.
—
Google has tangible assets. Millions of publishers and millions of advertisers brought together by the world’s most powerful search engine.
Banners Broker has… an advertising platform that allegedly isn’t even where they attract their advertisers, and a publisher platform that has been exposed on multiple occasions for not actually allowing its publishers to publish ads to their websites.
—
Here’s a question. Why did Google, a search engine, become involved in the advertising market through the creation of products that appealed to both publishers and self-advertisers alike? Simple, increased revenue, increased traffic….leverage they used to develop additional products and earn greater revenue.
—
You’re forgetting that before they introduced those products, most of the world already used Google. They monetized their own creation. That was their leverage.
—
Why didn’t they create a ‘combo’ package? In their case, the machine wasn’t there for such a program to work back then, however, today, to do so would actually work against them instead of for them due to their diversification.
—
Because it doesn’t make sense.
Advertisers want to advertise.
Publishers want to publish ads.
Anybody who is serious about advertising, or serious about publishing ads, is going to treat these parts of the business as the separate entities that they are.
When I advertise my various affiliate offers, I want the best possible advertising deal. I don’t want an ‘okay’ deal with some ad space on a junk Choice Network site thrown in as cashback.
You are making the business model far more complicated than it ever should be, which is an inherent mark of the ponzi scheme.
—
Google’s AdSense and AdWords programs simply put, buy and sell traffic. BannersBroker’s Advertiser and Publisher programs buy and sell traffic.
—
We know where Google buys and sells traffic. But nobody knows where Banners Broker attracts advertisers or publishers. You can’t just latch on to the coattails of the global brand that Google developed over 10 years and say you are one and the same thing. You have none of the infrastructure or data that Google lays claim to.
—
Where Google already had traffic that came from their search engine, BannersBroker uses the traffic needs of thier affiliate base as leverage to attract ad networks, affiliates and increase their traffic.
—
How? The only thing you achieve by leveraging affiliates is taking on additional costs in the form of extra margin. At the top of the food chain, an advertiser has to bite the bullet and buy what you’re offering. No advertiser is going to buy your inventory when he can get it so much cheaper elsewhere.
I go back to this:
“Feedjit, a well known web publisher, offers two million geotargeted, or 6 million global ad impressions for $49. The same would cost you $18,000 with Banners Broker.”
What makes you think advertisers are so stupid and/or extravagant with their media buys?
—-
What BannersBroker does, is leverage the needs of their affiliates, to generate revenue, then pays the affiliates based on what those affiliates have generated….just like Google does.
—
I could easily reword this as:
Where BannersBroker fails, is in needing to pay its affiliates a huge commission, to acquire impossibly under-priced inventory, to sell on at an impossibly high margin… just like Google, if Google was mugging its advertisers.
You refer to affiliates as if they give you leverage. But we both know that in an ultra-competitive market like banner advertising, the costs of paying your affiliates renders you a lame duck. You can’t compete.
There are too many companies out there that will offer a better deal to advertisers. Why?
Because they don’t have to double their affiliates’ money.
Also Terry can you please disclose the names of the Blind Networks that you are currently working with. There is zero reason why your company would not be willing to disclose this as it is neither detrimental to your operations or pricing as, by definition we still wouldn’t know what sites your adverts are supposedly showing on.
There would be no reason why you can’t just give us their names and then we can talk to the companies in question to verify that you are putting a sizable amount or volume through them.
I have just come up with a genius idea. Why don’t you guys who believe BB is above board and are defending them so vigorously against all us naysayers just make an offer to buy the accounts/ewallets from one of the existing members who now believes it’s a scam and that they are going to lose their money and not be able to withdraw their virtual funds.
What I mean is if Mr or Mrs X has “invested” $5k into BB and their ewallet is showing $20k but they believe that this money is not real and they wont even get their original $5k back, why don’t you just offer him $10k cash to buy his account? Or if it is against BBs terms and conditions to transfer or sell accounts then you could enter into a private contract with him or her to get the total withdrawn income from their ewallet at a specifc date (say 6 months later).
You are basically giving him $10k to buy $20k, now THAT is a deal. And he is happy because he believes he has already pretty much lost his money.
Let’s see who steps up.
Hi Terry
I am glad you came here to defend Banners Brokers in a civilized way.
First, I would like you to provide some evidence of the existence of big publishers and advertisers.
Name two big publishers that use Banner Brokers. For Google Adsense, I can name CNN.com and Mashable.com
Name two big advertisers that use Banner Brokers. For Google Adsense, you can see thousands of them such as Toyota, University of Phoenix, and etc.
Second, if Banners Broker charge much higher than Google in terms of CPM, Banners Broker should have an excellent ad network system that betters Google so that some advertisers can run to Banners Broker. Google Adsense and Adwords have contextual advertising system that serves relevant ads and smart pricing that allows the publisher to bid the highest with confidence. Please tell me what makes Banner Brokers special to compete with Google Adsense, while you charge much higher than Google. For advertising networks, I can see most offer a much cheaper CPM price than Google. I never seen
Third, Google adsense and adwords did terminate several publishers’ and advertisers’ account for violations of their terms to keep their ad network clean and reputable. For example, if publishers have adult contents, Google adsense resorts to banning those publishers. If advertisers advertise things against their terms, Google adwords will ban those advertisers. This is done to make the advertising network clean and build confidence in both publishers and advertisers. If you search for termination of accounts by Google adsense, you will see many advertisers and publishers’ articles about this. However, if I search about the Banners Broker publishers and advertisers, I have never seen ones, let alone any story about Banners Brokers banning advertisers and publishers. I can only see so-called affiliates’ accounts (ad-pub combo account)being banned for talking ill of Banners Broker. It seems everything is about affiliates. All banners broker does is to promote the recruitment of affiliates by suggesting the doubling of income and promising 100,000usd a month in 1-3 years in Cambodia.
Let’s be serious Google adsense generates a profit of around 2 billion dollars from Google Adsense with millions of publishers.It is well-known that Google shares the adsense renvenue with publishers in a 32-68 model. Google takes 32% of the adsense revenue, while publishers take 68%. Even if Banners Broker were genuine and equally as good as Google, there is no way affiliates could double their money.
If BB business is really genuine, instead of promoting the amazing amount of money a few affiliates in 1-2 years claim to have made, please name those big advertisers and publishers. Probably you can mention the amount of money a well-known blogger makes from your ad program. Please tell us the number of impressions you serve each month as other ad network always does to attract publishers and advertisers.
Hi Terry,
I find it just strange that the brand new PR man of a company would even bother to come on blogs to defend the business model of a client …. when people talk bad about the business i work in or we get bad reviews in the press or news our PR man talks to the media to clear things out ( journalists , tv and so on ) they dont go to blogs to defend our point of view tbh …. if banners broker is making the amount of money they claim to make why isn’t there any media talking about you ??? banner brokers would be the online advertising robin hood and i think every tv station would love to talk about you …. nope instead your company founders dwel the world holding seminars to talk people into BB i find that verry doubtfull … but thats just my point of view.
What i have read untill now is the same posts as the BB defenders have already tried to lie us into, only you do it much more civilised and trie to get our simpathy … but you do the same all others you compare BB with Google and to be honest i think they are way out of your leauge
Terry, searching for “blind network” on Google provided me with this very first hit:
“Smaller publishers often sell all of their inventory through ad networks. One type of ad network, known as a blind network, is such that advertisers place ads, but do not know the exact places where their ads are being placed.”
Tell me, how is this different from my explanation?
It even goes on to say that some networks use an opt-out feature to prevent specific ads from being shown on certain websites. Again, how does this put my explanation to shame? Where is this feature within the advertising portion of Banners Broker website? I assume it is a pretty common feature given the very common sense reasoning of my previous explanation.
Reading over my post, I can imagine you would reply with this:
“advertisers place ads, but do not know the exact places where their ads are being placed.”
While I can admit that there are likely some advertising programs that do not show the end-game position of certain ads, there is no company in the history of advertising that cannot show an example of it.
Where are Banners Broker’s?
I’ve been looking around the net for a simple explanation of how banners broker works and have found very little. Today I cam across this blog post http://onlinemlm.info/5/. Not sure if it is correct but its interesting reading.
Ok first, BB as you put it, isn’t an advertising company, they have a product that appears to advertisers but are in fact not an advertising company. The literature that was created that contained that statement has in fact been changed to correct this issue. The reason for the correction was it presented a misleading image of what the company does. Any advertising generated by the BB website, whether it be through an affiliate or not, goes straight to the blind networks they’re involved
with, not BB. If it goes through an affiliate broker’s site, that affiliate receives 10% of the revenue generated with the balance going to BB.
As to why would anyone spend premium price for what they could get at a cheaper rate elsewhere? I’m going to borrow an analogy from one of your users actually for this…you go to a sporting event, are thirsty and want a beverage. Since you’re not allowed to bring your own you must purchase one. The prices are overly inflated as we all know, with a bottle of water costing between $4 and $5 (double what it costs for a case), a cup of beer (not a bottle) for between $6 and $7, with a soda going for between $4 and $5. Why would anyone spend that when they can get cheaper? The answer is, added value. You get the tickets to the event cheap, but the cost of food and drink are outrageous, yet, people spend it. Look at the price of food at an airport, same concept. In this world, companies will charge what people will spend.
Let me try and simplify this to avoid creating a super long post….
BB buys ad space from ad networks with the understanding that they’re going to package that ad space up and resell it to their network of affiliates. These packages contain panels, each panel has a certain
value and each has a specific time period it will take for that panel to mature, some as little as 2-3 weeks and some take 5-6 months or more. Each panel also requires a specific amount of traffic to mature. Each
panel also has 2 values, what BB paid for it and what it’s charging the affiliate for it.
With me so far?
As BB sells the panels through their packages, they require traffic for these panels to generate revenue, which BB purchases in order to service the traffic needs of the panels. In return for purchasing the panels, BB pays a dividend to the affiliate once the panel matures, however, that panel is generating live revenue as the panel is running from the ad network. So BB is generating revenue from the sale of packages to affiliates, as well as from the ad network for serving ads. The ads appear on the ad space BB has purchased from the Broker in the blind network, as well as on publisher sites BB has attracted. Whether BB has 1 site, 100 sites or 100,000 sites in their network, they’ve already purchased ad space through their affiliation with the ad network, and that ad space rests on sites within the ad blind etwork. So no matter what, there’s advertising that will satisfy the panel needs. Since BB is paid every 2 weeks from the ad networks they do business with, and the panels mature at staggered intervals, BB is constantly serving ads and generating income. Now, it’s understood no business will pay on its products what it gets paid to sell them, so BB reduces the amount it’s paid by the ad networks for that advertising so it can afford to pay its affiliates and generate a profit.
Now since it takes traffic to generate ad revenue, BB purchases bulk traffic from the ad networks as well, which generate upwards of 3 Billion impressions per day. Again, since no company will sell a product for what it pays, it marks up the cost of the traffic to resell to the affiliate, the difference of course is profit for BB, and as BB owns the space and ads keep running, this revenue flows to BB. As it takes impressions to activate panels, and impressions for panels to mature, those impressions or traffic must be purchased up front. Now, an affiliate isn’t required to use all their traffic up front, but they must purchase it up front, like a variety store can’t buy individual cans of soda, it must buy cases. Since the purchased traffic represents a specific amount, and since each panel requires a different amount to activate, traffic purchases are constantly being made, and since BB only pays for what it uses, there’s always going to be a surplus, which represents profit for BB.
So, if we look at things together, BB generates revenue from the ads it purchases through the amount of time it takes for the panels (which is a virtual representation of an ad space BB purchased in the blind ad network) to mature, it generates revenue from the sale of traffic that it takes to activate those panels, and since it only pays for the traffic it actually uses, that’s where the revenue BB generates comes from. Since it pays less to the affiliate than what it earns from the ads, and (to use an analogy) it pays on the
cans of soda used not the cases bought, there’s a surplus of revenue that represents profit that it can now turn around and pay its affiliates with while maintaining profitable growth.
Any advertising generated either through the site or through affiliates is passed through to the ad networks, BB takes a commission on that sale, and passes 10% to the affiliate for bringing in the business. When it comes to publishers (people looking to monetize their websites with ad revenue), those sites are added to the BB internal or “choice” network, and leveraged with the ad blind network to get better pricing deals. The affiliate is paid 10% of the revenue generated by the ads revenue to the publisher with BB and the publisher splitting the balance.
This is how BB works in a nutshell. We’ve already established what the Blind Ad Network is, and it can be easily researched. It’s easily discovered that these companies all offer the ability for companies to
“resell” their products (ads and traffic) to other resellers. It comes down to packaging really and how these initial “resellers” package what these networks provide to them.
Hopefully, this will explain to you better what BB does and how it does it.
Understand, I will not get into specifics of releasing confidential financial information, nor will I go into depth on who the ad networks we’re involved with are, for good reason. There have been so many calls and claims BB isn’t what it appears, that we have a stressed relationship with Durham Energy, and with one of the ad networks we’re currently with Clicksor. We’re not violating any of their TOS, nor is BB doing anything illegal, but the disruption these inquiries is having is creating a stressful environment for everyone concerned.
As for the legal case in India, I will formally state that as long as the court case is active, I will not be releasing any information on it. Any information will be released through official channels by those authorized to do so.
Steve,
The one major flaw in what you just posted is, BB isn’t an MLM company, in fact it doesn’t have an affiliate program in the terms that you’re used to hearing about.
Terry,
the beer at a sporting event analogy, as I’ve pointed out before, doesn’t work, unless the the beer is being sold (using the Feedjit example above) at $6 by most vendors, but the BB stall is charging $2160.
Either BB have an amazing sales team, able to sell a commodity in a tough market at 360 times the going rate, or someone’s not being entirely truthful about the source of the revenue….
Theseus,
I think you have your pricing a little skewed, no offense intended.
The beer is only offered by vendors at the event, just like we are the only ones offering the ‘value added’ services. As a result of exclusivity, the vendors can charge premium prices for their products, the same applies to BB in this case.
I think what’s getting lost in the translation here is again, you’re treating BB like they’re an advertising company, which they aren’t. The primary mode BB uses to achieve thier revenue is in brokering traffic, not advertising. The advertising is bought by BB through the Ad Networks, and served off of their servers. BB doesn’t hold or serve the ads themselves, they use the revenue generated from driving traffic to those ads in order to feed their affiliates.
BB’s system works, because they’re able to broker the traffic through the Ad Networks to their affiliates, who purchase that traffic at a premium. As I’ve stated, no-one purchases a product for what the company they bought it from does, there’s always markup. The appeal of this program, is that the company offers an individual the opportunity to generate a revenue from the exchange.
It also needs to be explicitly noted, that it takes time for anyone involved with BB to generate an income worth the kind of attention you’re all getting worked up about. Yellow panels for example take 3 weeks to propogate, red take months. This isn’t a get-rich-quick scheme or ‘opportunity’ as has been insinuated, it takes time, and the affiliate needs to have a strategy on what they want to do with their inventory in order to generate the income they’d like. No matter the case though, our program is designed to provide gradual returns over a period of time, which is why the panels propogate at different intervals instead of all at once. However long it takes an affiliate to generate the returns they’re interested in, is completely up to them. BB only provides the resources and the program, the rest is up to the individual, who is also responsible for their own taxation.
Further to this, when a person purchases a package, they aren’t purchasing from BB, they’re purchasing from the individual who introduced them. BB’s relationship is that of the supplier…to give an analogy, you don’t return a SONY TV to SONY if you aren’t satisfied, you take it to whoever you purchased it from. This is in our TOS. BB is the Broker, who resells to the affiliate, who resells to other affiliates.
Banner advertising isn’t actually a tough market…..
In fact, the industry is at an all-time high according to PriceWaterhouseCoopers.
“Internet advertising revenues in the U.S. reached $9.26 billion for the third quarter of 2012, making the quarter the biggest on record, according to the latest IAB Internet Advertising Revenue Report figures released today by the Interactive Advertising Bureau (IAB) and PwC US. These figures show an 18 percent climb year-over-year, in comparison to Q3 2011’s $7.8 billion. In addition, they mark a 6 percent increase over the Q2 2012 figures of $8.72 billion.”
so if i understand it correct you are just the supplier now ?? but you close accounts even if you are not the ones we purchased from ?? then it would be normal if i talk bad about BB the seller would choose to block my account or not …. because what you are insinuating now is you don’t have anything to do with the affiliates you just supplie ??? rofl this is getting better and better …..
i just try to understand what you are talking about but makes no sence to me … well i gues am not that smart 🙁
and to be honest your exampel are ridiculous you only buy a beer at a sportsevent for that price because you have no choise its paying that or having to leave the event to buy it somwhere else cheaper … thats not the case when you want to advertise you look arround and get the best deal out that will be offered …. lets take an other example mr Terry when you go and buy a car what do you do ?? you look arround and try to find the best price isn’t it … or are you telling me you can buy a mercedes in a shop for 100.000 $$$ and in an other shop the same car cost you 150.000 $$$ you choose option 2 ??? yeh right
kind regards
brenie
Terry,
You say
“The one major flaw in what you just posted is, BB isn’t an MLM company, in fact it doesn’t have an affiliate program in the terms that you’re used to hearing about.”
and
“Further to this, when a person purchases a package, they aren’t purchasing from BB, they’re purchasing from the individual who introduced them. BB’s relationship is that of the supplier…to give an analogy, you don’t return a SONY TV to SONY if you aren’t satisfied, you take it to whoever you purchased it from. This is in our TOS. BB is the Broker, who resells to the affiliate, who resells to other affiliates.”
So what you are saying is the affiliates are working as an MLM but not BB?
So it does work in a similar way the post on onlimemlm.info, BB just provides the infrastructure for the MLM . When an affiliate purchase a panel and traffic, they are actually purchasing from their upline at 100% markup. So the blind network is actually the affiliates?
I see how this is going to go.
Let me make this super simple for you.
1. BannersBroker purchases ad space and traffic from Ad Networks.
2. BannersBroker packages that space and traffic up into packages for its affiliates.
3. The affiliates purchase those packages, consisting of panels and traffic packs.
– The traffic packs are applied to the panels to activate them, the ad space is assigned to the affiliate, the panel starts to generate impressions.
4. Once the panel propogates, either one or two new panels are generated.
– If only one panel is generated, the appropriate funds are then deposited to the affiliate ewallet.
– If two panels are generated, the panel inventory doubles, and no funds are transferred to the affiliate ewallet.
5. BannersBroker sells the traffic in bulk, but purchases traffic on-demand.
6. BannersBroker doen’t host or serve ads, it purchases space for ads and receives income from those ads based on the traffic applied to them.
7. BannersBroker isn’t an MLM or Affiliate program company.
BannersBroker creats the program, provides the space, and has complete authority over all affiliates using its program. If an account is blocked for TOS violations, BB is the one who blocked it, and subsequently must be the one who unblocks it. If your account was cancelled by BB for violating the TOS, then you forfeit the purchase price of the package, as well as any revenue generated as penalty. If you violated the TOS, there is no refund. Like it or not, it’s a common penalty for TOS violations, and within their right to do so legally.
If you want a refund for your purchase, you have 30 days from original purchase as outlined in the Policies and Procedures on the website.
When you purchase a package, you purchase through an affiliate’s website. Once the purchase is complete and you’re activated, BB takes over from there to ensure the proper credits are applied.
When it comes to BB and its affiliates, you’re an affiliate of BB, however, no money ever leaves the country that the affiliate is registered in. BB doesn’t issue the refund directly, it’s processed through the governing office in that country and refunded from there, because all funds generated in that country remain in that country.
Does this clear it up?
I don’t understand why you insist BB is an MLM company?
No money changes hands between the company and it’s affilites for introducing new affiliates, and the progression of an individual’s business is not dependent on introducing new affiliates to the organization.
You’re caught up on thinking BB is something it’s not.
Why is this so hard to accept or understand?
Terry, are you saying that if an individual does not introduce new affiliates, their panel will fill at a rate fast enough to reimburse them for their monthly fees?
Terry, you are using terms that every single pro-BBer is using over and over again.
Please, for the sake of sanity, break down the process into layman’s terms. For example, you state that affiliates purchase packages consisting of ‘ad space’ that BB has purchased previously. The packages that the affiliate purchased contains panels and traffic packs.
Please explain Terry, what does a panel represent? I’ve heard it represents a single adspace, a group of adspaces, which one is it?
Please also explain the process, step by step, from when the money leaves an affiliates actual bank account and gets sent to BB through one of its processors. What exactly happens? When does money exchange hands and with who? When is the product actually delivered during this process and by who? Explain where the product travels (from the publisher’s “open” space to banners broker’s, and then from banners broker’s space to the affiliate’s account).
If you are able to explain step by step, in the most simple terms possible, I would guess that there would be much less confusion.
Terry,
I’ve been in BB for almost 6 months now, and have yet to successfully withdraw a single penny of my alleged “earnings”. My “total earnings” are over 12,000, 18,640.00 (including unfinished panels).
I will happily enter into a contract with you where you’d receive every single penny of my withdrawn earnings going forward on my Banners Broker account in exchange for $5000 that you’d provide me right now. Since you obviously believe in Banners Broker as a business and the legitimacy of affiliate “earnings”, this is a no brainer for you.
For me, this arrangement would be a $2000 loss.. But I’d be very happy with that seeing as I’m now 100% certain that I am not going to recover my investment any other way.
Let me know.
Adam, which package did you purchase when you first started with BB and how much are you presently trying to withdraw.
Hi Adam, Just as a matter of interest, did you recruit any affiliates?
Thats confusing, another Steve!
I’ll be Steve2 Steve lol
Terry Stern says:
January 15, 2013 at 11:56 am
Theseus,
I think you have your pricing a little skewed, no offense intended.
The beer is only offered by vendors at the event, just like we are the only ones offering the ‘value added’ services. As a result of exclusivity, the vendors can charge premium prices for their products, the same applies to BB in this case.
I think what’s getting lost in the translation here is again, you’re treating BB like they’re an advertising company, which they aren’t. The primary mode BB uses to achieve thier revenue is in brokering traffic, not advertising.
Really?
Let me give you some (official) Banners Broker quotes;
“How it works: We supply you with inventory (online ad space) on various websites owned and operated by Banners Broker – think of it as your own profitable online real estate. Each of these sites already has a sizeable amount of existing traffic. So each time your ad space produces impressions for selected banners on the site, you earn a commission.”
” Learn how easy it is to keep doubling your money and turn $20 into $10,000 through the doubling process! ”
Sorry, Terry but I don’t see anything there about brokering traffic. Could you explain how the above quotes fit with your description of BB’s activities?
Terry, do you have any type of background in the online advertising space? As someone in the industry I can assure you what you have written makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And also the fact that you are pointing out the growth in the industry and trying to equate that with the cost of traffic shows ignorance in how the business world actually works.
I buy traffic and you are trying to tell me that as time goes on the cost of traffic increases and/or there is any value you can add to ad impressions that would make them worth paying more for. Dude you are talking gobbledygook.
In fact the more you post the more clear it is that your model doesn’t exist/work and this is just one huge scam, so keep up the good work.
If I was Finch I wouldn’t bother going to meet with your company as, at the very best it will be a waste of time and very worst possibly dangerous.
Adam,
If you email me at tstern@stellarpoint.ca I’ll look into your account and find out what he issue is for you.
If you’ve been trying to remove funds but have run into roadblocks, I’m definitely interested in finding a solution to your issue. There’s no reason if your account is in good standing why you should’ve been denied access to your funds, and I will diligently try to solve any issue surrounding this.
This is up to you, but I’d like to see if I can help.
I bought the black package, and then I did recruit one person.. I stopped recruiting as soon as I realized that Banners Broker is a Ponzi scheme.
I wan’t looking for a money making opportunity when I joined Banners Broker. I was attempting to gain access to an advertising co-op for a completely separate business. In order to be eligible for this co-op, you had to join Banners Broker in the downline of the co-op organizer. It was presented as a revenue sharing opportunity that would “fund” the ad purchases in the co-op. I thought it made sense when it was explained to me, and I highly trusted the person running the co-op who introduced me to it, so I joined BB without doing much research at all. It was a colossal mistake that I take full responsibility for.
Anyone else in the same position as Adam? If the BB system is similar to the one I found earlier, then that makes sense. Unless you recruit, your panels will not mature quick enough for you to realise a profit. Your panels will fill at about the same rate as you pay in fees, and you can never take a profit as you have to re-invest.
“Terry, do you have any type of background in the online advertising space? As someone in the industry I can assure you what you have written makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And also the fact that you are pointing out the growth in the industry and trying to equate that with the cost of traffic shows ignorance in how the business world actually works.”
Yes, I’ve been in the Marketing and Advertising industry for approximately 9 years, spanning commercial and online advertising, in addition to working in Operations for an additional 9 years. Thanks for asking.
You’re also confusing the issues here. Once again, BB isn’t an advertsing company, period.
They don’t solicit advertising, but rather provide an access point for advertisers to which they can generate a small profit from.
They don’t buy advertising but rather ad space, through ad networks, at bulk rates, through programs these companies provide for that purpose.
You seem to want to keep rehashing that BB is in advertising, when I’ve already stated BB isn’t an advertising company. I have also not tried to equate growth in the industry with cost of traffic. What I have done is show that the business is growing steadily, and that under the terms of their arrangement with their Brokers, they are able to package and sell the ad space and traffic they purchase from those Brokers however they choose as long as it doesn’t violate the Broker’s TOS. Understand yet?
“I buy traffic and you are trying to tell me that as time goes on the cost of traffic increases and/or there is any value you can add to ad impressions that would make them worth paying more for. Dude you are talking gobbledygook.”
No, I did not say that. What I said was that buying traffic, you aren’t making any money unless that traffic results in sales. With BB, buying traffic allows you to earn revenue on the traffic that’s used by your panels in maturing. There’s a clear difference.
“In fact the more you post the more clear it is that your model doesn’t exist/work and this is just one huge scam, so keep up the good work.”
The model does exist, does work, and is sustainable because we’re actually working with a tangible product that is increasingly available. You seem to think they’ve reinvented the wheel here. They’ve found a way to merge two products being offered into developing a third product that generates revenue using parts of the other two.
“If I was Finch I wouldn’t bother going to meet with your company as, at the very best it will be a waste of time and very worst possibly dangerous.”
If you were Finch, I submit that you’re right. You clearly aren’t listening or open to actually learning who BB really is, so nothing that would be said to you will matter.
Evidently, you aren’t that familiar with the entire online advertising industry, because if you were, you would realize that most ads are served from one central location, managed by 10-12 ad networks, that control the advertising on over 500 Million websites. You would understand how it worked, and see how the BB model actually utilized an already available product provided by these networks, to source and supply its program. Yes I’m summarizing, but it’s an accurate summary.
How much clearer can I be?
Can you go into this in a bit more detail?
“When it comes to BB and its affiliates, you’re an affiliate of BB, however, no money ever leaves the country that the affiliate is registered in. BB doesn’t issue the refund directly, it’s processed through the governing office in that country and refunded from there, because all funds generated in that country remain in that country.”
If no money leaves the country am I right in thinking the purchase is from, for example ‘Banners Broker UK LTD’ and the sale from the same entity? In which case this brings up the whole VAT issue again.
My understanding was that vat was not applicable as we were dealing with a Canadian company and therefore export of supplies/ services VAT rules applied.
Could you address this point, Terry? You seem to have skipped over it….
Let me give you some (official) Banners Broker quotes;
“How it works: We supply you with inventory (online ad space) on various websites owned and operated by Banners Broker – think of it as your own profitable online real estate. Each of these sites already has a sizeable amount of existing traffic. So each time your ad space produces impressions for selected banners on the site, you earn a commission.”
” Learn how easy it is to keep doubling your money and turn $20 into $10,000 through the doubling process! ”
Sorry, Terry but I don’t see anything there about brokering traffic. Could you explain how the above quotes fit with your description of BB’s activities?
So BB is not an MLM or and affiliate programme? Then why is there such a heavy recruitment drive and incentives to recruit and restricting ability of those without referrals to progress i.e. amending sales credit to 1/4 and adding a new admin cost for affiliates with 10 traffic packs i.e. non recruiters
Why does it ever need to recruit an affiliate ever again? Surely there must be a saturation point for funding within the syatem and Banners broker gets to a point where it no longer needs any additional revenue from people.
Also why such a complex payout structure. If the business is as simple as you explain why is it not just a case of
I but a panel, $10, pay for it, it is used in the blind network etc. and completes giving me revenue of $20. Why can I not just take out my $20 or pick and choose when I buy panels etc. If BB is making $100 from that transaction it doesn’t matter whether I return or not as it has so many ongoing affiliates and everyone would want to do that and get that kind of return. It would have no impact on cashflow as the nature of your business cash cycle.
Clearer? A picture paints a thousand words. Most, if not all of the criticism comes from the fact that it is not clear where the money to double the value of a panel comes from. Hence the accusations of being a ponzi scheme, mlm etc. Why not produce a diagram showing cash flows in and out and where the value is added that produces a profit. Does profit only occur when someone in your downline buys a panel/traffic?
Despite the level of sophistry exhibited by Mr Stern, he is doing a very poor job at vindicating BB. This isn’t about selling jewellery or bling-blings, unless he provides some real answers, I doubt anyone here would be satisfied with the trinkets he offered so far.
Phil,
You’ve actually brought up a good point. As of recent things have changed as the result of problems we ran into with having regional BB offices. I was just informed of the changes as they were just recently enacted, so I apologize for mis-speaking on this earlier.
BannersBroker used to have regional offices set up in each country they did business in. The problem arose whereby the people running some of those offices chose to stray from the official method of doing business and implemeted their own procedures and instructional techniques. This resulted in some of the problems we’ve been talking about on the blogs and forums, where misinformation was handed out, and affiliates were told the wrong thing to get them to sign up. One such issue was in fact in the UK, where the representative there started charging affiliates for support when he should have referred them to BBI. He also signed up people under false pretenses to the tune of $4 Million which he placed in an offshore account. You already have heard of what’s going on in India.
As a result, each country now processes its affiliates through BBI directly, with each country having an Independent Consultant to provide recruiting and training services. This is where I need to correct my earlier statement, whereas affiliate signups are processed by, and the money is sent to BBI directly and no longer handled by regional offices. As such, you are not required to pay VAT on your earnings, so you are correct.
** Please understand, and this is not an excuse, the company is growing rapidly, and as such things are changing to keep pace. The company is doing everything in its power to address these ‘growing pains’ as best it can, but some things have fallen through the cracks. My appointment is one such method to work to help clean things up and correct the mistakes that were made in the past. In fact, we have put together a whole team dedicated to rooting out the sources of these issues, stop them from continuing to do dammage to the company and it’s reputation, and build a better relationship with the community so we can continue to grow.
So, I once again apologize for stating the wrong information earlier. When I say I just found out, I literally was just handed a brief outlining the changes being implemented now in our offices around the world. In fact, we have the Independent Consultants that are heading up each country’s consulting offices here now so they understand fully who the company is, what the products are, and how they work so there’s much fewer mistakes moving forward, and a more solid understanding of the company and its products.
@Theseus,
“How it works….”
As stated, BBI purchases ad space on websites and traffic in bulk to resell to its affiliates as purchased from the Ad Networks. These ad spaces and traffic are already in existence, they aren’t new, and represent current sites and spaces on websites on the internet currently. They do have a sizeable amount of existing traffic, as that’s the qualification for being in the network.
“Learn how easy….”
I’m not sure where you found this, but this is one of those misleading statements that needs to be corrected. That being said, if you follow the program, use the tools like ‘traffic packs’ which are available to you and take advantage of the incentives that are offered, you can turn a $20 (a $10 yellow panel after 2 complimentary cycles) into a sizeable amount over time….but it will take time, it isn’t going to happen in a month or two, and will take a plan to accomplish.
The problem with selective quotes is, you won’t see what you’re after. You didn’t state the source of the information, so I’m unable to critique it accurately, however, my responses are accurate as they apply.
Phil,
“So BB is not an MLM or and affiliate programme?”
– It’s through our affiliate purchases that we’re able to leverage more and attract new Brokers with new products. Not all Brokers offer the same products, and as more products come online, affiliates can do more to earn.
“Why does it ever need to recruit….”
– As it stands, that point doesn’t exist, it may appear in the future, and with it so will the program change to adapt. This isn’t about needing revenue, it’s about leveraging the traffic requirements and ad space purchases in order to grow and allow more people to generate more income. Sure the company benefits, but your question is a bit like asking Coke what they’ll do if there’s too many soft drinks on the market. If it happens, BBI will adapt like any business.
“Also why such a complex payout structure….”
– Please forgive me, but I don’t see the payout structure as complicated. Could you perhaps rephrase your question another way to demonstrate your point?
@Steve,
Ok this is an easy one actually.
When it comes to the technical part, traffic is currency. So when BBI purchases ad space and traffic from the network, they do so at bulk pricing. When BBI sells that ad space and traffic to affiliates, it does so at market premium pricing. When an affiliate runs their panels, because each color has a different propogation time, the amount BBI makes varies as well….but remember, BBI got a deal on the cost of that space and the traffic purchased to qualify that panel. Since the affiliate paid premium for the traffic, and since the panel is still running even though there may not be an affiliate leasing it, BBI earns on it. When the panel matures, enough traffic has been purchased and ad revenue generated, that through the commissions BBI makes from the Broker, it can afford to pay the affiliate double the purchase value of the panel and retain a profit. Remember, traffic is bought from BBI before the panel runs, and generates traffic as it runs.
@Nourjan,
What is it specifically you’re looking for that would satisfy your curiosity? I haven’t seen nor heard anything from you thus far.
“Learn how easy….”
I’m not sure where you found this, but this is one of those misleading statements that needs to be corrected.”
Really? I’ll tell you where I found it (and the other quote), on the official BB blog, the one used to launch the programme back in 2010.
http://bannersbroker.blogspot.ca/2010_12_01_archive.html (don’t worry, I’m sure I’m not the only one who has saved a copy of the page, just in case it vanishes)
If it’s a “misleading statement” then Banners Broker has been misleading it’s investors, sorry “affiliates” for over 2 years.
“How it works….”
As stated, BBI purchases ad space on websites and traffic in bulk to resell to its affiliates as purchased from the Ad Networks. These ad spaces and traffic are already in existence, they aren’t new, and represent current sites and spaces on websites on the internet currently. They do have a sizeable amount of existing traffic, as that’s the qualification for being in the network.
The problem with that, Terry is that the sites that BB originally claimed that their adverts are on, are how can I put this delicately….crap. They are junk sites with no meaningful content, all registered around the same time, and all registered in the name “Chris Smith”.
None of these sites receive a “sizeable amount of traffic”, and even if they did the only adverts on them are for Banners Broker itself.
Remember, these quotes come directly from Banners Broker themselves, not from someone who is out to do down the company, or an affiliate who doesn’t understand how the business works, these are direct from the horse’s mouth.
If you are now saying that Banners Broker operates in an entirely different manner then could you point me to an official announcement (I’d imagine it will be on the blog) which announces this seismic change in how the company conducts its business?
I may be confused here, but either you’re saying that BB’s own early marketing material is wrong, or that the company completely changed the way it does business, without informing any of its thousands of affiliates…..
@terry Stern
Hi Terry
If BB is not a scam, how come you’re using scam processors to “pay out” to your affiliates? Why not use simple bank transfers?
who knows about the new Executive affiliate level where we must pay 500 a month for membership .. if we go over 10 traffic packs a month
Terry, a simple question. Is it possible to to take more money out of Banner Broker than I put in, without recruiting any affiliates?
“Evidently, you aren’t that familiar with the entire online advertising industry, because if you were, you would realize that most ads are served from one central location, managed by 10-12 ad networks, that control the advertising on over 500 Million websites”
Please list these 10-12 ad networks and where is this one central location and what is it called?
im in the same position as adaam i refuse to recruit people after not getting any answers and doing proper due dilligence …. i will never make my investment back and realy don’t care …. and you know what it’s nice you want to look in peoples accounts that had some troubles … but why do you have support ??? and why aren’t they able to answer in a reasonable time ?? tickets getting purged and wel hell support doesn’t answer or only after weeks and …last ticket was begining of january wel guess what still no answer … but i guess thats how a multi million dollar business works isn’t it
kind regards
brenie
Show me the ads! 5 examples from reputable companies would be just great Terry.
Thanks in advance!
I have read about 85% of the comments of this article, so please don’t hate me if repeat what others have said.
I was a potential “investor” myself, but luckily I found this article last minute. I think it’s important to raise awareness with the “victims” for the very real threat of identity theft, since BB requires people to upload your photo ID, post personal questions and answer them, leave personal data and also enter your credit card details into their questionable Payment-Partner-Systems.
I’d advise anyone who registered to take precautionary measures, like cancel your credit card, request a new photo ID, change your passwords everywhere to avoid the danger of account-theft by having used standard pw-email-combos etc…
Hey has anyone had any update at all on whether BB are currently paying out requests from BB prepaid cards?????
@ gassin
Good question! Its like the release of the the next generation Apple’s IPhone. So, e-information is pre-released. Smith – CEO of BannersBrokers international and others will meet with some top-sellers in January, 21st. Its about the US/Spanish and German/Fench/Tuerks etcetc markets. The BannersBroker version 2.9is a strange HYBRID of late 2012-version 2012 and beta-3.0 upcoming version. It performs LIKE HELL.
Some points had to be discussed.
500,000 members at the Manchester event
1,000,000 members at easter…late march.
Lets say I understand 20-50% of the BannersBroker secrets and mechanics…ONE THING is DEFINENT: GO GET A WELL-FUNDED E-WALLET*.
The representative for the german-speaking market is SWISS and hates Austria, but the standards will be Austria and Lichtenstein, I guess ?
*The BannersBrocker version 3.0 will be soon, IE 4-5 weeks !
“ONE THING is DEFINENT: GO GET A WELL-FUNDED E-WALLET*.”
Oupsism, sorry there may have been some …
..yuup? Yes. In the world of virtual representatives the e-wallet is the only save place right now*.
*Maybe version 3 will have a BBMasterCard zo e-wallet function. Right now you cant fill your e-wallet with the BB-MasterCard – or ANY OTHER MEANS !
Rumours are with the swedish downline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r5lnQYwdbE
asfor the UK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prpu9u0Nm9U&
@Terry
What selection criteria did BB use to recruit the uplines?
How many people have you refused to take on as affiliates?
What training has BB given to affiliates to help them recruit?
Why are BB affiliates encouraged to recruit at every opportunity?
Why is the ad/publisher combo pushed the hardest to potential recruits by affiliates?
What benefit and value does that package give to those people we have seen at the meetings/conventions/recruitment drives? (eg pensioners with little/no internet experience and/or no company that would need any advertising)
What profit level does BB make on the ad/pub combo?
What disciplinary procedures does BB have in place with regard to recruitment of the wrong type of affiliate?
What are you going to do to rectify the potential mis-selling of packages?
What attracted YOU to work for Banners Broker – Stellar Point?
hey guys today is day 10 with bb and i doubt any of you guys will read this because terry stern is on here but so far the progress is good. i think it only updates once a day which is at like 2am in the morning. i quess i’ll keep you guys updated. Semper fi!!!
Snipe I read everything on here, even whatever the hell Andreas is on about, I thought Esperanto had died out
Just a quick post to let you know how unprofessional BB are :-
The links provide proof of extortion and coercion :-
I asked My Stern why affiliates were forced to do a survey to access their BB accounts.
(see http://www.realscam.com/f8/banners-broker-question-answers-1924/index2.html#post41310)
I received this response
http://www.realscam.com/f8/banners-broker-question-answers-1924/index3.html#post41321
I responded with
http://www.realscam.com/f8/banners-broker-question-answers-1924/index3.html#post41332
and after a day of no response I posted
http://www.realscam.com/f8/banners-broker-question-answers-1924/index5.html#post41544
then the response back from Mr Stern
(see http://www.realscam.com/f8/banners-broker-question-answers-1924/index6.html#post41559)
leaves me with a bad feeling and additional to all the other negativity surrounding Banners Broker, the term extremely unprofessional can now be added
I have not yet received a decent answer to my response.
Shame on you Mr Stern for promoting both criminal and unprofessional behavior from Banners Broker
Im following you snipe
Snipe,
It’s just monopoly money, it would take you months to get any back and only if you’ve supplied them with proof of ID like your passport and notarised ID.
Thankfully I realised there was something amiss so altered the scan of my passport in photoshop (changed photo and serial) and designed my OWN headed paper and notarised myself then uploaded, I did a pretty good job of it and both were accepted without a problem.
I’d suggest you did the same, only you haven’t really got a BB account have you, you’re just here to try and wind people up.
Feel free to post a screenshot of your ten day old account.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l612/Garbagepolice/20130116_173342_zps7cfae89e.jpg
there you go steven howard. oh im not trying to wind up anyone on here at all. but i am kinda of nervous of actually taking moneny out because from what i heard that is the biggest issue with BB. i guess we will see i’ll keep you guys posted. ohh yes its been ten day with the account but its been five days since the pannels began. i was also including the time of everything to go trough with allied bank.
I’ve been reading the thread since Finch got what he wanted all along…Someone directly from BB to address his concerns/allegations. I respect Mr Stern for trying to defend BB in a civil manner; without any of the arrogance, sarcasm and personal abuse which Martin ‘Finch’ is prone to at times.
Putting that aside (although I mention it because Finch went out of his way to insult me, and is an odious individual in his own wrong), this is SERIOUSLY on topic:
T. Stern quote:
‘One such issue was in fact in the UK, where the representative there started charging affiliates for support when he should have referred them to BBI. He also signed up people under false pretenses to the tune of $4 Million which he placed in an offshore account. You already have heard of what’s going on in India’
WHAT??? Is this the same person whom Banners Broker ‘wished well’ in his new business venture with his wife? Because if it is then pretty much everyone signed up to BB in the UK who went to an official presentation (as I did) and every person who didn’t, but was signed up directly on the advice of someone who went; was signed up ‘under false pretences’.
And if this is true, why have we not ‘heard’ about this $4,000,000 of affiliate’s money being ‘misappropriated’ (I don’t like to use the word ‘stolen’ without a criminal conviction); in such a flagrant manner? And without any apparent action to recover this money by BB?
It’s outrageous that something as significant as this appears to have been brushed aside as if it is a minor transitional inconvenience for BB and it’s members/affiliates/non-investors or whatever term we’re supposed to define them as.
Snipe.
It just seems as if you are trying to wind people up, I just don’t understand why you keep coming back telling us about the money you’re making.
I also don’t understand why you put money into this thing (after reading this thread) in the first place, you know it’s a ponzi, but still wasted your money on it.
Are you mad?, or do you have some sort of ulterior motive, there’s plenty of people around here who have already put money into BB (me included) and stated so on this forum, who know they’re not going to get anything back, yet you decided to go ahead anyway. I’m at a loss but would appreciate your reasoning.
BTW, the screenshot, I could easily create a screenshot of any numbers you wanted, it’s pretty easy to do with a little knowledge. Not suggesting that’s what you’ve done, but it is very simple to achieve.
@ D Pressed
For your information, so you are clear about this affiliate who has (allegedly) appropriated funds, this is Section 1 of the Theft Act 1968:
“(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly.
(2)It is immaterial whether the appropriation is made with a view to gain, or is made for the thief’s own benefit.”
Should any action be taken against said affiliate, Subsection 1 is the what the law will look at. On the other hand, it may be that Section 4 of the Fraud Act, 2006 may be more appropriate:
“(1)A person is in breach of this section if he—
(a)occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not to act against, the financial interests of another person,
(b)dishonestly abuses that position, and
(c)intends, by means of the abuse of that position—
(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or
(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
(2)A person may be regarded as having abused his position even though his conduct consisted of an omission rather than an act. ”
To recap then: money has gone missing from affiliates, it appears to be have been appropriated by an affiliate and is now somewhere in an offshore account. It is therefore likely, according to Terry Stern, this person has STOLEN money. No need to pussyfoot around on words D, the word STOLE is appropriate.
Why haven’t BB called in the police? Therein lies the rub does it not?
Terry you have gone quiet, have you resigned already?
You say
“When it comes to the technical part, traffic is currency. So when BBI purchases ad space and traffic from the network, they do so at bulk pricing. When BBI sells that ad space and traffic to affiliates, it does so at market premium pricing.”
I think that just about says it all. Could you tell us what “market premium pricing” means. Over 100% markup? So the business is basically selling products at inflated prices to affiliates and then getting them to recruit people to sell them on at even greater inflated prices. Sounds like an MLM to me.
If BBI had found a way to make a profit from the “blind network” alone, just from buying and selling advertising and traffic, why does it need the affiliates?
I’m still waiting for an answer to my question, is it possible for an affiliate to withdraw more money than they put in if they don’t recruit?
I guess You all got feeling what is the deal. So please now, go apply to some kind of police or CIA or wherever, where you can make your investigating dreams come true. Frustrated freaks! It’s a men’s business, got no cash or no balls, get lost then.
Hey xJASONx
What makes you think and or believe that BB haven’t already been reported?
If you don’t like the company you are keeping, nothing is holding you back from leaving here. Sadly, can’t be said for affiliates in a certain company though.
Have a lovely, lovely day boyo
🙂
This just posted on the official Banners Broker Facebook page:
Are you kidding me, Terry?
Is the official Banners Broker FB page seriously accusing me of posting all of the comments above?
You guys just can’t help yourselves.
I trust you’ll be making sure that whoever is in charge of the account issues a correction and a frank apology on the page?
Wow, Terry has really dropped the ball disclosing that 4m has been stolen from UK affiliates. 4,000,000 stolen from your members and none of them informed until now.
Who stole the money. What was their name? Are charges being brought etc. etc. etc.
Ball dropped big style!
I think it’s pretty safe to say that this scheme is not capable of pulling out of the many holes it has dug in the past week or two.
Banners Broker network is not the official Banners Broker Facebook page. Do your homework better Finch.
Finch,
I posted this over on RS, but thought I might also post it here as it is to do with you:
Martin / Finch
I have a serious question for you if I may.
I was just on the telephone with my brother (who is an investor in BB, apparantly a total believer and probably looking at this site right now), and he hung up on me when I laughed at him trying to bring in “THE BLIND NETWORK” excuse.
However, before he hung up, he made a comment about the anti BB web sites, and mentioned Finch in particular and claimed that Finch had been thrown out of BB and that is why you are so anti BB. Could I ask you to please comment on this as I know my brother will read this and I would like him to read it directly from Finch himself and not through the BB network. Would you be so kind?
Thanks
SwissBlueSky – That’s a complete lie.
I’ve never invested a single penny in the program, so there’s no way they could have kicked me out.
My fascination in BB started when my two of my family members were coaxed in to investing large sums of money. I took an obvious interest in the company’s claims given my own experience in the advertising business. After researching the program, I immediately reported it to the authorities. I then wrote these two posts as a ‘voice’ against the affiliate websites and various false claims that were ranking on Google at the time.
A few months ago, you couldn’t Google ‘Banners Broker scam’ without finding a whole page full of affiliate websites that were optimised to hoard the traffic and attract gullible investors in to their downlines. Originally, I only wanted this piece to be read by people searching for evidence of a potential scam. It’s exceeded all of my expectations and it now ranks close to the top of Google for every key Banners Broker search term, including the company’s name.
This has attracted a lot of false stories from those with vested interests in seeing the program continue to attract investors. Hence your brother’s claim that I was thrown out of Banners Broker.
It would be nice if Terry could confirm that I have never been a BannersBroker affiliate. A simple check of the database should do it…
I suspect Terry’s plan to overawe us with his charm, knowledge and years of PR skills have backfired and what you see above is the next stage in BB’s attack.
If you *are* planning a return Terry, do pop over to realscam.com too, we still have lots and lots of questions for you 😉
Finch,
Sorry for asking, but I wanted my brother to get it from the horses mouth so to speak.
Will the new PR chief Terry Stern publicly acknowledge this now please? He seems to have disappeared from here and from RealScam since he got caught out answering simple questions with what were plainly untruths, but I hope he will have the simple decency to come back and confirm that this is the truth.
Brother, I hope you are reading this and that you also have the simple decency to stop spreading untruths. Hard as it may be to accept, not everything BB tells you is true!
Are u talking about India or Indian police ..They are big bastards and they even can’t catch a dog ..what if they shut down the banners broker ..because it is a easy target ..Indian government is a bunch of assholes ..They know nothing about internet marketing ..They shut down even payoneer payments to india ..payoneer which is a legal company ..Now what u tell ??
To the BB defenders:
I want to ask you just one simple question, one that I asked my brother:
WHY does BB not use normal payment methods? Why does BB, instead of using normal banks or PayPal or bog-standard cheques, use these online payment methods that are not only so inefficient, but are well known historically to be used by all types of scams in the past? Why on Earth would any legitimate business do this? It is beyond belief that a legitimate business would use these payment agencies, and the fact that BB uses them almost exclusively despite the apalling record they have shown recently must surely indicate that something is not right with this business.
I asked my brother this question, and his response was “we knew that before we got involved”, which of course is no answer at all. If I am going to invest – yes INVEST – money in an online business run by people I don’t know and who’s past is proven to involve online MLMs and/or PONZIs, then I would not touch it with a bargepole if they refused to use normal payment methods.
Why is it so difficult for these people to see it, and is any BB-defender out there going to provide a sensible answer to this question?
Mr. Terry Stern, do you have a sensible answer as to why BB uses such questionable and inneficient institutions instead of normal banks (which, by the way, are far, far cheaper to use than these online institutions!).
I don’t expect a sensible answer as I believe the answer to be that these payment institutions will work with BB to “pay” as and when and to whom BB want to pay, and take a very nice cut for the pleasure of doing the business thank you very much!
But maybe I have it all wrong, so could someone from BB please explain it to me?
been brought here from this thread on whocallsme: http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/01618502123/12
Terry Stern wrote:
“One such issue was in fact in the UK, where the representative there started charging affiliates for support when he should have referred them to BBI. He also signed up people under false pretenses to the tune of $4 Million which he placed in an offshore account.”
Just wondering if Mr Stern could confirm whether or not the UK representative that was signing people up under false pretenses to the tune of $4 Million in question might have been Banners Broker 4 Business Limited (UK Company No. 07904637), a company registered to Barry Young aka Barry Costello-Monnelle, an individual who appears to be linked to quite a lot of scams going back years if you google his name…
Sorry folks, I’ve been hung up the past 2 days posting over at realscams.com and in meetings.
Let me address what’s been posted here, and let me expressly state, that I am the only person who will be speaking to you on behalf of BannersBroker International or Stellar Point. If I don’t say it, it’s not official. Second, any information that goes out over our Twitter account or official Facebook page is approved by myself before it goes out. I can only address comments made on those 2 official social network platforms currently, however, if you have issues concerning other BBI related commentary from other accounts, please bring them to my attention. Like yoursel, I want to make sure that what’s being said is the truth and not misleading or lies.
Now, that being said, let me respond to some of your comments.
@Maynard,
The processors we use aren’t ‘scam’ processors, they’re legitimate companies. The issue is, due to the limited availability of processors that allow for international use, we’re forced to use the same companies other ‘less reputable’ companies also use. Paypal unfortunately isn’t an option due to the amount they charge as fees. They are much more expensive to use, and cost both the company and affiliate money to move funds around.
@Steve,
The answer is a resounding yes. In fact, many of our affiliates don’t recruit anyone and do quite fine in generating considerable revenue for themselves.
@Nick,
I’ll give you a bunch, AdBrite, Ad Magnet, DoubleClick, ExoClick, Infolinks, Zedo, Right Media, Kontera, Hydra Network, Clickbooth, BuySellAds. The Ad exchanges, due to the volume of ads and the geographic locations the ads come from have several servers on which the ads are distributed from. The biggest central ad server farms are located in Pasadena, CA, and New York, NY. The term central refers to the server farms that the banners are served from, not a specific geographic location.
@Brenie,
We currently have over 300,000 affiliates, which can generate a tremendous number of support tickets. Short of employing a small town to address them, our support staff has had to deal with a move as well, which caused our ability to interact with the ticketing server to become interrupted. Our support staff is currently being expanded in order to accomdate the delays in responding, but it takes time to train people on the software and our procedures before they can start addressing support tickets.
As for your not making your investment back, once your panels finished propogating their 2nd complimentary cycle, you would have had your investment back and available to you. I am unsure of why you’re having a problem with that?
@Madoff,
You’re still confused about how the process works. First, we aren’t an advertising company and don’t sell advertising. Second, the ads we do serve are done so through the blind network, which doesn’t specify where the banner will appear, but only which categories and geographically targeted region the advertiser has selected for their ads to appear.
@Shrooms,
In order for any company doing business online to pay their affiliates, they must first have identification on file that properly certifies that the person is who they say they are and validates their address. This regulation has been set out by governments around the world in order to protect both the company and the individual from fraud, as well as to prevent money laundering.
@gassin,
That information was just released to the Independent Contractors this week, which will then be explained in-depth to the affiliates once they have returned from their summit. As the IC’s are responsible for training and marketing in their individual regions, it falls to them to relay that information to their respective regions upon their return.
@Ditto Ditto,
I don’t know what you are referring to as ‘uplines’ since we don’t use uplines/downlines as part of our terminology in BBI.
Yesterday in fact I was told that over 60,000 new applications were refused due to issues involving missing ID, fraudulent CC attempts, etc.
Training falls under the responsibility of the Independent Contractor in that region. They are currently here at the BBI HQ in a summit being briefed on new procedures, products, and compliance regulations which they will be bringing back to the affiliates in their regions.
The ad/pub combo is ‘pushed’ as you put it, because it’s the affiliate program. It allows affiliates to generate credits towads activating and propogating their panels quicker, and helps others to take advantage of the revenue generating program. It’s not required, but it is recommended if you want to grow your business faster.
As I said, the Ad-Pub combo is the affiliate program. A person doesn’t need in-depth knowledge of the advertising industry, or how online publishing works to benefit. They need to be able to follow the guides and training as offered by the IC’s for their region as set out by BBI, which explains what the panels are, how they work, what traffic impressions are, how they’re applied to the panels, and how the process works once the panels have propogated. The benefit is in the easy creation of an online business, that generates an income specific to the efforts of the affiliate running the business. There are very few programs like it.
The profit level is proprietary information and will not be released.
If an affiliate is found to be in violation of the compliance regulations or TOS, their account is first frozen and the affiliate is given an opportunity to correct the issue. If the violation is serious enough, the account is permanently locked, the affiliate banned, and in some cases involving stolen credit cards, their information is passed to the appropriate authorities for investigation.
We are currently tracking down all leads on affiliates who have misrepresented the company and its products, and locking the accounts pending an investigation. Legally we must investigate every violation. The unfortunate part is, there will always be people who slip through the cracks and cause havoc, so it’s extremely time consuming doing the research to track these people down. Honestly, this is where these “anti-scam” sites should be coming in, to help us identify these individuals so we can investigate and have them removed from doing harm to anyone else.
The company had experienced incredible growth over the past 2 years, but, had grown faster than its infrastructure was capable of keeping pace with. When the opportunity was discovered that I could help the company start to answer the growing number of voices asking for help or addressing the claims about the type of company it was, I accepted. It’s just going to take time to undo the negativity that’s been put out there, and to remove the undesireable elements to get back on track.
@D. Pressed,
All that has been said is what was openly brought to my attention. The IC in this case has had their account frozen, and been removed from any position of authority. The issue isn’t that they took $ from affiliates and misappropriated it, it’s that he had a side venture going that he promoted to BBI affiliates which presented a conflict of interest. It doesn’t affect BBI affiliates as much as it affects BBI, so I hope that clarifies that. No affiliates accounts were affected. My apologies for not being clearer when I mentioned this, and the authorities have been contacted and the investigation commenced.
@Seven,
Unless you have proof that you aren’t going to get a return on your purchase, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from stating so. IF you followed the process of activating your panels, and they fulfilled the two complimentary cycles, your initial purchase value would be available to you to remove with the equivilent in panel inventory to build your business with. Stating you aren’t getting anything back says to me that you didn’t follow the simple instructions explaining how the system works, and how you could remove any funds due to you. In light of there being nothing stating that you were unable to do so, what you’re saying is misleading.
@Steve,
You are incorrect. The prices do not keep inflating. The cost of panels and traffic that BBI makes available to all affiliates is the same price. Prices do not inflate from affiliate to affiliate. No company sells a product for what they purchase, and no company states publicly what their profit margin on their products is.
You are under the misconception that the company needs affiliates. It doesn’t need them, it has built a business model around them so that many may share in the business model, similarly to how many companies that offer affiliate-based programs do. MLM is just another industry that uses this model, it’s not the only one.
Most Importantly @Finch,
The Facebook page you’ve referrred to is NOT a BBI official page, and the information posted there is not sanctioned by BBI or Stellar Point. In fact, it’s thanks to this blog that we’ve been alerted to their post, and are in contact with them to have it removed. Further to this, due to the confusion, all non-BBI facebook, Twitter and other such social media accounts are being notified that they are in violation of our TOS and are being asked to state on their accounts/posts that they are not official BBI accounts. If there is further issue, I encourage you to contact me directly to have action taken.
Formally I offer my sincerest apologies on behalf of Stellar Point and BBI if the content of that posting has caused you any inconvenience or grief. It is currently being dealt with by our compliance team and we hope to have it corrected soon.
I also confirm Martin’s statement about not being an affiliate of BBI. He has never been involved with the company as per our investigation to confirm this statement.
Re: India,
I’m sorry, but because the case is still being investigated and researched, I can not comment on the activities of the Indian Police or the investigation. I can only state that we have provided the Indian Authorities investigating the claims against BBI with every resource and document that they have requested in order to see this through to a positive end, and that currently, the Independent Contractor that was arrested has been released pending the outcome of the investigation.
If you don’t hear from me, it’s because responding to these posts are time consuming, and I have other duties that require my attention. I have not disappeared, I’m simply busy.
Thank You.
WHY does BB not use normal payment methods?
Why does BB, instead of using normal banks or PayPal or bog-standard cheques, use these online payment methods that are not only so inefficient, but are well known historically to be used by all types of scams in the past?
– Unfortunately, there are only a few avenues available to any company that wishes to do business internationally in the direct sales industry. PayPal charges fees to both the sender and the receiver so that’s not a path we’re going to follow. Anti-money laundering regulations prohibit us from directly depositing into your bank account from ours, we must go through a 3rd party processor. Cheques are direct, but different regions offer different restrictions or penalties for those wanting to use cheques as a payment method. Since there are so many restrictions, we’re required to follow the same paths the ‘less-than-reputable’ companies follow.
If I am going to invest – yes INVEST – money in an online business run by people I don’t know and who’s past is proven to involve online MLMs and/or PONZIs, then I would not touch it with a bargepole if they refused to use normal payment methods.
– First, you may say you’re investing in a car or home, however, to the dealer or agent you’re making a purchase. Legally they aren’t allowed to call it an investment because the term is classified legally as subjective.
– Second, association with an MLM doesn’t make a person guilty of anything. Avon is an MLM company. MLM describes a payment structure in the Network Marketing and Direct Sales industries. Regardless of whether the company they were involved with was ‘dirty’ or not, unless that individual ran the company or it was proven that they were aware of ‘improprieties’, association doesn’t make them guilty.
– Lastly, neither I nor anyone in either Stellar Point or BBI has ever been arrested for improprieties involving their association with MLM-based companies. To make an accusation of this nature is a dangerous thing without proof.
I hope this better answers your questions.
Thank You.
Terry says,
“The answer is a resounding yes. In fact, many of our affiliates don’t recruit anyone and do quite fine in generating considerable revenue for themselves.”
Could you tell me how to do this? A breakdown of the actions needed and on what day it has to be done, to allow me to TAKE OUT, more than I put in. Not the value of my ongoing panels, but money back in my hand.
Terry
“PayPal charges fees to both the sender and the receiver so that’s not a path we’re going to follow.”
But you *do* charge people to put money into BB and charge people to take money out. The payment processors ALSO charge for a money transaction. Your statement about this is therefore, not quite as good as you may think it seems. In fact, you are not doing anything differently to PayPal, maybe you are even more expensive.
Re your response to me directly. The only reason you reject an application is if they cannot supply the information you require. So if the money is good, then your company will take it, no questions asked?
Why are some of your affiliates and/or ICs targetting parts of the populations that may have no idea of the business they are getting into. For example, why would an Old Age Pensioner need an ad/pub combo? I know of OAPs who have been pushed into investing in/buying that package.
Maybe I blinked and missed it, but you didn’t answer my question about what it was that attracted you to working for the company. I am disappointed that most of your responses are flannel and not much else. My last question, I promise you:
Why are you here?
Terry, please don’t insult my intelligence with ‘The Blind Network’ nonsense. There are no ads because they don’t exist as ye have no clients. Your pricing is insane, your business model is one that can only exist for either the delusional, the stupid or the greedy. BB started as a cycler and will collapse as a cycler.
You haven’t given one shred of proof that you are a legit company other than long-winded replies, thick with waffle and light in substance.The only reason you’re here is damage limitation in order to try and keep the ponzi scheme that is BB shuddering along for a while more so you and your associates can squeeze some more money from people who in a lot of cases can ill afford to do so.
You know it. I know it. Anyone with half a brain knows it.
You should be ashamed of yourself but I get the feeling that you’re not the type for existentialist angst.
@Terry,
Sorry, but I **will not** be getting my money back.
I have grave doubts as to the integrity and legality of BB, nothing you have said so far has convinced me in the slightest. I won’t withdraw money that may be illegal, hence unless you can PROVE this is not a Ponzi, the money stays where it is.
The maths don’t add up, the ads don’t show up, you can’t or won’t give any more details on the alleged owner and the other major players in BB have a history of being involved in schemes closed down by the authorities.
Please stop insulting our intelligence and give us some EVIDENCE.
You might start by telling us the name of the force that you reported the theft to. A crime reference number would be even better.
Hi Terry Sterns,
You are good at answering questions deceptively about Banners Brokers. You said you use 300,000 affiliates as a leverage to get discounts from ad networks. Let me assume it is true. BBI does get discounts. However, you forget that if BBI were a legit company, there must be true advertisers that pay real money to BBI. Say now you do have true advertising money from legit advertisers. According to your BB business model, some of the ad revenue must be used to pay to ad network and affiliates. The rest of money will go to BBI.
Now based on your ad-pub combo program, BB affiliates will double their money over a specific time. That means 100% return on their investment or whatever BB would like to call. But that doesn’t make sense in terms of the margin.
You just claimed Double Click, known as Google Adsense, is one of the ad agencies BB deal with. According to Adsense press release, they take only 32% from the ad money and leave 68% to publishers. Say you have immense leverage and can take 31% of the share and leave 1% to Google. If you buy the ad space at $69 ($68 to publishers and $1 to Google as a broker) and you sell it at $100 according to the Adsense rate, my question is how your affiliate can double their money given this margin. It doesn’t make sense at all.
Now, the only way is you charge much higher than $100, the market price offered by Google. That scenario is not possible given your company is not a reputable company and why advertisers need to advertise through BBI rather than go directly to Google.
Your claim that your BB is not an ad agency backfires in supporting the validity of BBI business model because BBI doesn’t even have control over its impression inventory.
Now you assume you can charge higher price than Google adsense while selling Google adsense impressions. Money must come from reputable advertisers that are willing to pay premium for this. Can you name a few reputable companies that advertise by using Banners Broker?
If your company were legit, please stop promoting Simon Stepsys and a few people who claim to have made millions of dollars from affiliate program and encourage people to recruit and not to withdraw money. It would be productive that you name a few reputable companies that have paid millions of dollars to your company with the evidence that those reputable companies are actually using BB services.
Personally, I would not advertise by using the blind blind ad network services which I have to be penalized for paying double brokerage fees (to BB, and to ad network). I would rather go directly to those ad networks and pay my money to them and get real assistance from real professional people.
I would say BB model is the blind blind network, the only one in the world that looks like a scam, feels like a scam and is allegedly a scam.
Steve it’s Steve here, I’ve been with bannersbroker 16 months and bought in for £900, before I sponsored anyone I let my panels do their stuff. I have now drawn out $2000 and spent it on my BB card, this without sponsering, I can prove all this but in the light of people accusing of doctoring documentation to prove a point your more than welcome to come to my house, I’m near Chester…… Can anyone tell me where the list of these defrauded pensioners are…….oh and for the record I’ve now signed 4 people into the business and referred them to this site before doing so…
Also Terry, could you point us to the specific money laundering regulation that prevent you from transferring money to an individuals account. I thought the due diligence required is greater if you are not using a bank account. To quote from the UK money laundering regulations
Non face-to-face customers present an inherent
risk of impersonation fraud which businesses
should also take account of in their internal
policies and procedures. Regulation 14(2) of the
Money Laundering Regulations 2007 requires
that businesses apply enhanced due diligence
measures, on a risk-sensitive basis, when they
do not physically meet their customers (see
Section 7.11.2).
Therefore, businesses must apply additional
verification checks to mitigate the risk of
impersonation fraud. These checks may include:
• requiring additional documents, data or
information to verify the customer’s identity
• applying supplementary measures to verify the
documents supplied
• requiring the first transaction to be carried out
through an account in the customers name with
a UK or EU regulated bank or one from a
comparable jurisdiction.
Terry, a very, very simple question for you.
Could you please tell me what the address of BBI’s actual physical offices is? Not Carlow Ct (as that’s Stellar Point), nor Belize or the IOM, as we’ve checked both of these thoroughly and both are simply “brassplate” mail drops.
Where are the actual BBI offices? Where would I have to go to see BBI in all it’s glory?
Not a hard question, I’m sure you’ll agree, so I’m sure you’ll have no problem answering it.
And remember, not Belize, not the IOM….
@ the other steve
You bought in for £900 so about $1440. Was that your total outlay, what about monthly fees. Did you buy and additional traffic packs?
@ Steve
Yes total outlay Steve, it’s built up to just short of $60,000 that’s including unfinished panels, but should a true reflection of what I’d get should I let all the panels finish and not repurchase, bearing in mind my turnover within my bb business so far is just short of $40,000 so I reckon I’d make half of the difference in profit. I’ll gladly show you all the vector card transactions an all the rest of it, just not on here.
Ditto Ditto,
So what you’re suggesting is that we process payments through PayPal, and add their fees to the processing fees that are currently in place?
Can you clarify what you mean by BBI charging people to put money into BBI please?
I didn’t say that the only reason BBI rejects an application was due to the affiliate not supplying the information, what I said was “that over 60,000 new applications were refused due to issues involving missing ID, fraudulent CC attempts, etc. “.
Until an account passes this process, in some cases the funds are in escrow awaiting account approval, in others no charge is applied until the account approval is issued. If an account fails, in some cases the funds are returned to the applicant, in others the funds were never fully processed.
I can’t respond directly to why some affiliates are targeting certain demographics over others, as we don’t single out any demographic over another in our training process. If you know of an affiliate that is doing so, I know for a fact BBI would like to know about it so they can take action to investigate their intentions.
I actually did respond….on second glance I can see how it was missed as I didn’t clearly open my response.
“The company had experienced incredible growth over the past 2 years, but, had grown faster than its infrastructure was capable of keeping pace with. When the opportunity was discovered that I could help the company start to answer the growing number of voices asking for help or addressing the claims about the type of company it was, I accepted. It’s just going to take time to undo the negativity that’s been put out there, and to remove the undesireable elements to get back on track. ”
Let me add this…
If more people actually approched the companies that they’ve got an issue with directly, for example, calling attention to an affiliate who’s misrepresenting the company, speaking incorrectly about its products, targeting a specific suspect demographic, and/or generally questioning an affiliate’s actions, some of what you’re talking about could be avoided. I say could because some companies are just what they appear to be, other are not and would love the help to source out the problems so they could solve them. BBI is one of those companies, and hopefully you’ll see that soon.
In the meantime, I’ve received Martin’s questions, and I will get my responses to him as soon as I’m able to.
Thank You.
Hi Mr. Terry,
Answer my question why the margin doesn’t make sense at all. Don’t selectively avoid the question. I mentioned it two times already. Double Click, aka Google Adsense, takes only 32% from the revenue and the rest goes to publishers. Tell me how your affiliates can double their money by reselling Google Adsense impressions. Name a few reputable advertisers that actually pay millions of dollars to Banners Broker with proof to show it is true.
What’s the name of the individual who stole 4,000,000 from BB affiliates? Are charges being brought? If yes, can you give a contact name and number of police for verification.
Steve, so at the moment you have 40k invested! And your panels that will be “worth” 60k when they mature? Is that 60k all in panels, so you have to repurchase 30k? i.e. your down 10k in real terms if you take out the maximum you can and close the account?
Anti scam watchdog, have a bit of respect, MR STERN is coming here answering questions, it’s you that’s starting to look cheap.
Terry rofl i approached the companie and for 4 month’s had no decent replie and now you tell me you have 3000.000 affiliates short on staff training them support had to move ??? so thats you’r excuse for me not getting any decent support for over 4 month’s now ???
As for your not making your investment back, once your panels finished propogating their 2nd complimentary cycle, you would have had your investment back and available to you. I am unsure of why you’re having a problem with that?
seems you forgot there that BB is not an investment 😉 but ok i forgive you
kind regards
brenie
No Steve, the difference is 20,000 half that will be repurchase of 10,000 I’m left with 10,000
oh yes Terry forgot to mention …. or the companie has changed drasticly but when i made my account and loaded my ewallet the money went straight in and BB charged processing fee straight away the same day even before my ID and rest was approved … you charge now 100 $ premium account subbscription but i cant expect proper support ?? you charge % when you withdrawl money and vector charges % when you use a BB prepaid card so what’s the difference with paypal i think the service fees with them would be arround the same …
kind regards
brenie
@Terry,
Actually, I would prefer for payments to be paid into my paypal account, no need for uploading of ID or any such crap like that, paypal handle all of that.
Actually, come to think of it, I never had to send them my mugshot, never even had to get stuff notarised, my credit/debit cards are good enough for them.
As for the extra charges (if they exist, I’ll be comparing charges), with the money I should have been making with BB, whats a few extra dollars to Paypal, I’ll gladly pay it.
There, payment problems sorted.
“@Nick,
I’ll give you a bunch, AdBrite, Ad Magnet, DoubleClick, ExoClick, Infolinks, Zedo, Right Media, Kontera, Hydra Network, Clickbooth, BuySellAds. The Ad exchanges, due to the volume of ads and the geographic locations the ads come from have several servers on which the ads are distributed from.”
So what you are saying is those networks are the blind networks that dominate the internet????
You are off your rocker.
Hydra – CPA Network not ad network and doesn’t even exist any more as it was bought out years ago
Clickbooth – CPA Network as well (but they also have a TINY recently opened ad network which is not blind and is self serve.)
Exoclick – A friend of mine owns Exoclick and they are an adult ad network and not even blind. No where close to being a large player.
Zedo – Not an adnetwork but an ad serving technology.
I happen to work (or have worked) with almost all of the companies you have mentioned and you clearly have just dug yourself a huge hole that you can’t get out of. You have just shown that not only do you not know what a blind network actually is you actually don’t know what an ad network is.
I can’t wait to see what Finch writes in reply.
@Nick
I’m sorry, but you’re totally wrong, it’s not A blind network, it’s THE blind network.
THE BLIND NETWORK is owned by Banners Broker, all affiliates ads go into THE BLIND NETWORK and you never see them.
Ever,
Nobody Does,
Ever,
But it works, Banners Broker have got millions of dollars for it.
AND……… Thats why it’s called THE BLIND NETWORK.
[/joke – sarcasm over]
@ Terry,
So sorry, but that is utter rubbish. Have you no qualified accountants in your company? Are you not able to drop into your local banker and get his advice. Either would tell you that your response is complete and utter rubbish. Money laundering laws – good grief. Don’t try and fool an international accountant, which is what I am and have been for 40 years, and I have been making international payments for even longer than that. Yes, the money laundering laws are relatively recent in comparison, but if a normal bank or PayPal are able to make international payments more or less instantly without demanding copies of passports or any such identification, please don’t insult my and other’s intelligence by claiming BB uses dodgy online payment methods to comply with money laundering laws. Laughable!
The truth is that BB has no intention of using normal payment methods because it does not suit them to do so as normal payment methods would not permit you to get away with the constant delays in making payments. You know this is true do you not?
@Bernie: …seems you forgot there that BB is not an investment but ok i forgive you.
ME: I don’t forgive him. Mr Stern should have his account shut down IMMEDIATELY for non-compliance. He’s just the sort of person BB are trying to root out for misrepresenting the ‘business’ as an ‘investment’. In fact, there is a page on the ‘dashboard’ where affiliates are vigorously requested to report such breaches of ToS….hmmmm…..
Secondly, I have been waiting nearly FIVE MONTHS for my first modest STP payment….Excuse after excuse from ‘support’ about technical or processing problems. Interspersed with no response at all.
Slow to no payment is endemic with BB and Mr Stern has no valid reason to express surprise about it.
As for the point about the $4m taken off UK affliates: It beggers belief that he says this is less important than a ‘conflict of interests’ between BB and this man over a petty non-rival scheme he’s got involved in to rip off even more people! It does show though that BB cares about itself, not about its affiliates.
Even worse, ‘Officially’, Mr Stern and all at BB wish him and his wife well in their venture aka: conflict of interests. Even though they KNOW he’s had it away with OUR money and can’t be trusted!! Of course our accounts are affected by this MASSIVE conflict of interests between him and his many affliates and those he sold the ‘business’ to indirectly under false pretences at presentations. Our ‘panels’ and notional wallets haven’t been affected because they’re not connected to reality. It isn’t real money if it can’t be accessed. Or if it’s made up entirely of new affiliate money coming in to replace ‘misappropriated’ money, which means that money is stale, not fresh.
Worse still, Mr Stern says, I’ve bought my package not from BB, but from a crook who bought his package off BB!! Now, if I want to address this man regarding MY account, I can’t because he’s done a runner. HIS account is ‘frozen’. And the whole sordid affair has still not been announced to any affilates who don’t read blogs like this one!!
So, I AM in the position of trying to get my money off ‘SONY’, because the retailer/salesman has gone. And the way the business is set up, BB offer the customer service of a badly run shop, but distance themselves from responsibility with regard to the people they supply their shoddy goods and services to by saying it’s the fault of a rogue salesman when things go wrong.
And that’s another reason the business model doesn’t work. It is in the interests of GREEDY affiliates like him to earn commissions off BB (payment in kind) for getting people to sign up regardless of their tactics. BB can to some extent monitor online promotion, but not offline ‘word of mouth’ misrepresentation; deliberate or ignorant. Or even at official presentations where the rep. uses the script in front of a camera but embelishes it extravagantly at the bar! His case is worse though because he was also a BB employee. Another conflict of interests in the higher eschelons of the system.
BB can’t know if those dodgy affiliates understand, or care to know whether the ‘business’ is viable for, say, an old lady with no business to sell other than to buy adverts to advertise the concept of BB! In fact virtually all the ad/pub is made up of people whose ‘business’ is just a link to their BB signup page and whose ‘adverts’ are invisible BB logos promoting the concept of BB! As yet no one has signed up via my page, so I fail to see what ‘service’ I am providing which can generate me any profit at all, never mind the $1,000’s my account pretends I’ve ‘earned’ for buying things I can’t see for a business I don’t have, in lieu of a business model that is nothing more than a theory.
It’s like Amway, but with invisible, intangible cleaning products! Or a football stadium bar selling drinks for $20, but where they cannot show me the drink or the can, but take my $20 anyway; on the basis that…’trust us….we’ll give you a can of drink twice the size in a month’s time…. …’but please be patient…we’re having technical problems with some of the ring pulls and it could be six months or never before you get a sip out of that can…’
Well this seems really a money printing machine. I shall go to the bank and ask for a loan to invest… (sorry) to purchase colored packages on BBI. Should be a no-brainer… or wait a second maybe the bankers are currently not generous enough. Why not go to the ones focused on making money like the mafia or some Mexican drug connection. Not really people you want to be seen with but hey, they have money and are always looking after ways of laundering their money. Must be a no-brainer as well if I tell them how many money they could earn with this perpetual motion machine of money. *1
Maybe not the best plan so lets think really big. Why not go to the government and tell them that you have a great plan how to get rid of this damned national debt. Just register at BBI and get the ball rolling. BBI for king of the world!
(The text could possibly contain sarcasm so don’t do this at home)
*1 Best plan to be listed as #1 on the next darwin award list ;o)
@ Peter, Paul, & Merry
YesN’No
a oneway laundering might be OK for bb
FE 100 green and purple packages worth $ 56,000 – gifted – withdrawal 5* $ 9,000 – closed. Leaves $ 11,000 for bb.
a cycle is NOT OK for bb. It would extract money from the system.
Terry
“Further to this, due to the confusion, all non-BBI facebook, Twitter and other such social media accounts are being notified that they are in violation of our TOS and are being asked to state on their accounts/posts that they are not official BBI accounts.”
Best you hie yourself over to Facebook then sunshine, cos NOT one of the pages I look at everyday has made that clear.
Re recruitment of older people: “If you know of an affiliate that is doing so, I know for a fact BBI would like to know about it so they can take action to investigate their intentions.”
The supergranny in Tasmania would be a good start as she has boasted in a youtube video about the number of 60/70 and even 80 year olds who have invested in BB. You may also wish to look at some of those UK heavy recruiters who regularly post about recruitment meetings with videos showing people who are, being kind, not in the first flush of youth.
Terry, your answers are simply dreadful. “Being in meetings”? You should be devoting 100% of your time to doing your PR on here, not sitting in a meeting discussing the future!
You may not understand this but I do, you are talking a load of b*ll*cks!
[quote]What is it specifically you’re looking for that would satisfy your curiosity? I haven’t seen nor heard anything from you thus far.[/quote]
Answers.
Specifically answers to the questions asked here and anywhere else critical of BB,the type of questions sane non criminal people kept asking.
Not only have you are unable to answer them(the ones you didn’t selectively dodged, that is)credibly, but you kept repeating the the same misleading statement that have been proven to be false.
As a PR person ,you’ve failed to dissuade the sceptics and naysayers. You may have also brought your own reputation into disrepute by fumbling this so badly.
That is what I meant by my previous statement,or do you really believed I was taking jabs at your jewellery business ?
This has really gotten pretty pathetic Terry. Repeating the same mistruths over and over and over again.
please MR FINSH ?
I’m in no a representative or affiliate of the anything.
I DO GIVE SHIT on your $ million you had made. It was not your intention. DO NOT AT ANY TIME PISS AT THE EU as such.
There is such a thing as the “High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy” and a “VAT”.
Call the EU-VAT a fraud but you start to get me on my nerves!
PS the KOngo out mid’2012, Mexico/ Germany / Nigeria in NOW. Sao Paul (?), Brazil in with the cool PR/ web-sites
Before I start addressing your answers again, I’m going to once again say, that no, my role as PR isn’t to sit on forums and blogs to address the (at times ridiculous) requests for answers of unnamed people who may or may-not have an agenda in requesting that information.
There may be questions you feel you are entitled to an answer to, you will have to accept that some you are, and some you’re not. Your personal opinion about what information you’re entitled to have isn’t relevant.
There may be answers I give which you feel aren’t sufficient or don’t satisfy your ambitions to ‘get to the bottom’ of things. Like it or not, the answers I’m provding are the real answers, and if they aren’t specific enough I’m sorry, but there are things that can be said and can’t be said legally, and there are things that, as a private company, BBI is entitled to keep private. Your arguements that it’s hiding aren’t valid there as any Private company would deny access to certain information…that’s why they’re private.
Now, that all being said, some of you aren’t going to be dissuaded as to the legitimacy of who we are. There are those in the MLM industry who’s job it is to anonomously attack and draw doubt to new companies that are growing fast. Since each person posts with an alias, how are you/we to know the agenda behind each question?
I’ll do my best to answer your questions, and I’ll be as accurate as possible where I’m able to be, but in the end it comes down to whether or not you a) understand what’s been said, b) have done your OWN research into the validity of my answers and c) personal preference as to whether this company is for you.
There will always be naysayers and sceptics, because quite frankly, some people have nothing better to do than to jump on a bandwagon and start talking badly about a company with the circumstantial evidence they possess. You can believe them if you want, but if that’s going to be the case, why are you here and why am I? You claim it’s because we can’t do what we say we can, yet after I’ve explained it over and over, you feel you’re the expert, we’re the amateur and we have to be up to no good. I’m providing verifiable information, where’s yours?
My responses addressing the above will be in my next post. As I said, I’m going through Martin’s questions and putting the answers together for him, he’ll post them once I’ve sent them back.
oups
Mexico/ Germany / Nigeria OUT now, YES Brazil in, India and ireland/UK strong…China nowhere!
(alexa.com…january 14th / 17th)
Terry Stern on January 17, 2013 at 11:42 am said
“As for your not making your investment back, once your panels finished propogating their 2nd complimentary cycle, you would have had your investment back and available to you.
I am unsure of why you’re having a problem with that?”
maybe you are not fully aware of the BB TOS:
“No affiliate may create documents that portray earnings that have not been sanctioned by the company.
Words such as “investment”, “doubling”, “ROI”, “compounding”, or “interest”, guarantee in relations to income earned may not be used.
Affiliates found to be in violation of these terms are subject to immediate termination and forfeiture of any products purchased.”
so how do we know you actually represent BB if you use the word “investment”, one of the forbidden BB words ?
If BB is not an “investment” and does not use “doubling” and doesn’t do “compounding”, can you please state in positive terms (so not using the word not) what BB actually is ?
We are not interested in what BB is NOT.
Terry, Terry, Terry
“I’ll do my best to answer your questions, and I’ll be as accurate as possible where I’m able to be, but in the end it comes down to whether or not you a) understand what’s been said, b) have done your OWN research into the validity of my answers and c) personal preference as to whether this company is for you.”
This is NOT a sales meeting as far as I’m aware. You picked up the wrong script again?
By all means just stick to answering Finch. I’ll now sit here and shut up and wait for what you say in response to his questions.
Actually, seeing as you are the PR go-to-guy and you’re here to do damage limitation to the BB/Stellar Point reputation, I really do think you need to be on this case 100%. One thing at a time eh?
I hope you now have the space and time to provide simple and straight forward answers. Have a good day.
@Seven Howard,
You ask for proof, which I’m providing, yet I challenge that some people here don’t want proof, they just want to see another company crash, regardless of whether they’re legit or not, simply to say they were part of bringing it down. If you want answers, I’m providing them, do your research and see if what I’m saying is accurate or not, and if I am, be willing to say so.
The math adds up just fine, I’d love to see where it doesn’t, the ads show up all over the place, but the way the system works (and BBI isn’t the only one who uses it) the ads are placed for exposure to gather impressions, not strategy. If you were a marketing manager responsible for online advertising, and you had to pick all the sites you wanted your ad to be on from the 500,000,000 websites out there, how would you go about doing it so you could visit the website and see your ad? What you’ve all missed, is that the people/companies doing the advertising aren’t doing it through us, they’re using the ad network. We don’t provide advertising, we aren’t in the advertising industry, we’re resellers of ad space and the traffic that uses them. Why can’t you understand that part?
You ask for evidence, but you aren’t specifying what evidence you want to see, or accepting it when told that some things are priviledged information which you aren’t entitled to.
As for any legal matter, if it becomes public you’ll find out then, otherwise, no information regarding active legal investigations other than through official channels will ever be released for discussion on a blog or forum. Show me any company that does.
@Anti-Scam Watchdog,
Right from the very go you’ve got it wrong. You keep assuming we’re an advertising company selling ads, which we’re not, so no, no advertisers pay any money to BBI.
Once again what you say is twisting the truth. An affiliate will get twice the value of their original purchased inventory after the first 2 oomplimentary cycles have completed. What happens from there is up to the affiliate, BBI makes no guarantees about the success of an affiliates business, and doesn’t make any claims past that point.
I didn’t claim Double Click, I referenced Double Click, there’s a difference. This is where the problems come in, you’re taking what I said out of context and providing arguments based on inaccurate information.
There is no backfiring, you’re right, we don’t have control over the ad inventory supplied to us. We purchase ad space, not ad inventory.
Since the basis of your arguement lays within an inaccurate assessment of the company and its processes, I’m moving on.
@Steve,
Each country has banking regulations governing off-shore banks. Business to Business transfers are permitted, however, each bank has its own processing time for the request. Business to Personal accounts aren’t permitted by come countries due to their local anti-money laundering regulations. Since BBI must create a system that addresses the needs of every affiliate with regards to payment options and not individual needs, the payment options available have to reflect that scenario. As such, direct deposits are not an option due to certain countries not allowing that function as a result of anti-money laundering. To give you every country and every bank that we deal with anti-money laundering policies would be a rediculous and time consuming request. If you want to know, look it up, most banks and countries list their anti-money laundering policies online.
@Madoff,
No. I’ve already stated, I can not and will not go into any details surrounding active legal issues or investigations. The matter concerning the individual in question has nothing to do with any affiliate, it has to do with matters concerning the individual and BBI directly.
@brenie,
Please explain ‘i approached the companie and for 4 month’s had no decent replie”.
Yes BBI has over 300,000 affiliates, but I didn’t say we were short on training staff, and I didn’t say we had to move as a result. I said the company moved to accomodate its growth, which would result in adding additional staff to accomodate the increased support needs. Any growing company will have its growing pains and require time to adapt in order to provide the appropriate level of service. There have been many companies that have gone through this cycle, and once the level of support improves, the delays are soon forgotten.
You are incorrect on the fees, the amount PayPal charges becomes quite extreme, and the base amount PayPal charges each month is also higher than other options.
@Seven Howard,
Once again, the company isn’t just paying you, it’s paying tens-of-thousands of affiliates at once, so the amount BBI sends out to institutions is substantial. Banks have regulations that govern how long it’ll take them to process certain amounts. From there, after the payments are broken down into the individual payments by the banks they’re sent to they take their time processing the request according to their policies. PayPal isn’t an option due to the procesing time and the fee structure they have in place. So what do we do about people who don’t have PayPal accounts? A company can’t focus on just one person, they have to look at their entire affiliate base and find a solution that works best for everyone. The more payment methods offered, the more fees are paid out, the longer some delays are, the more complicated it becomes to integrate into the software. There’s a big picture that some of you forget exists, and some parts affect others in negative ways. There has to be a balance in the parts that doesn’t break the whole.
@Nick,
You are the one who is mistaken. It’s easy to sit back and claim that you’re someone who’s worked for all these companies, while using an alias to put the information out there. If you in fact work for one of the above menioned companies, I would enjoy an email from you using your work email address that contains your company information and contact info. I’ve stepped up and identified myself and provided the means to verify my identity, kindly do the same. But for someone to accuse me of not knowing the industry I’m in and have been for over 9 years, I’d like them to offer evidence other than blind claims that aren’t verifiable.
@Seven Howard,
The term isn’t a BBI term, there are plenty of resources online by members of the marketing and advertising community that use and define this term, for both the internet and mobile internet.
@SwissSkyBlue,
If you were actually who you say you are, you’d know international banking laws, and regulations as they pertain to off-shore banking. In short, in them it requires that we verify the identity of each individual we do business with. Since we’re an online company that deals in large sums, across international borders, we have specified what we feel is acceptable proof of identification of an individual. We are not the only ones that work to validate ID. Once an affiliate’s ID has been passed through our internal department, it goes to an external one. If it fails there the account is flagged. In some cases the accounts are simply refused and no funds are taken, in others the account is processed but the affiliate is notified of the steps they must take in order to process payments. You all like to think that you’re getting 100% of the story when people post they aren’t being paid by BBI, but in reality, they aren’t telling you they used stolen credit cards to apply, haven’t provided the required ID or their ID wasn’t able to be verified completely. Would you honestly release any funds to an idividual who hasn’t verified their identity to you? For tax purposes you need to know who you’re paying. For banking regulations you need to know who you’re paying. The ID we ask for works to remove any delays and provide those that require it with indesputable proof that you are who you say you are when we pay you.
@D. Pressed,
My using the term ‘investment’ in my response was to reference the initial question posed to me. You (the plural) people really want to nitpick every little detail rather than stick to the issues don’t you? You’re really out for blood, not truth.
If there’s an issue with payment, and you’d like to bring it to my attention, I will see what I can do to provide answers, but understand, I’m not support.
Once again, the issue with the individual in the UK is a matter between BBI and he individual. This isn’t a matter that affects the accounts of BBI affiliates that have signed up through him, or the integrity of the program. It concerns BBI and the individual directly, over a conflict of interest, and if more information is to be released, it will be done through proper channels, not discussed here.
I submit you have no concept of inventory, and that you don’t understand the program at all, even though I’ve broken it down about as simple a I can.
I’ll try once more…
BBI buys traffic and ad space for $A.
BBI repackages traffic and ad space.
BBI resells traffic and ad space to affiliates for $B.
Affiliates buy traffic and ad space for $B.
Affiliates use traffic and ad space.
Affiliates generate revenue from advertising placed on the ad space they rent through panels.
BBI generates profit from the sale of additional traffic for $D.
BBI pays affiliates the differnce between ($B+$D)-$A = profit.
Since the rest of your arguement is based on inaccurate information, I’m moving on.
@Ditto Ditto,
What part about “are being notified” did you miss in my statement? Perhaps you should sit back and watch to see what happens rather than be so quick to comment.
No sir, you do not understand, but you like to paint the picture that you do.
@Nouran Nanash,
I request you submit proof that my statements have been proven false sir. I have seen no links, images of documents, etc that refute my statements as false. I have however provided you with reasonable information as answers to your questions which enable an individual as yourself to be able to do their own research to determine who is speaking the truth and who is not.
I’m not going to sit here and do your work for you. Anything I say is automatically dismissed by you as being false. Why are you here asking me questions if you aren’t going to accept the answers? You believe the postings of people who could literally be college dropouts sitting in a coffee shop somewhere with no actual facts but have an ability to twist the truth to make it seem like a lie.
If you want answers, take what I say and do your own research, then come back to me with your findings. If I’m right, have the courage to say so rather than join those who are just looking for a fight. I’m not debating any longer, you can’t debate facts. I’ve provided you with answers, a description of the program, and addressed your concerns. If it doesn’t give you any comfort, I’m sorry, then perhaps the direct sales industry isn’t for you, because much of what I’ve stated is commonplace in the direct sales industry, which has been going for centuries, and run by a number of high ranking companies.
If your goal is simply to cause doubt, you’re doing a good job, but you’re actually not helping anyone. You’re twisting the facts about processes and procedures that have been going on in the direct sales indusry for decades, and principles that go back centuries. Companies like Avon, IBM, Yahoo! and HP all have off-shore companies based in countries like Isle of Man because they’re tax havens. They all buy shell companies and rename them because it’s quicker and easier to do so. This is all common knowledge to anyone in business.
If you really want to understand what’s going on, ask me. If you just want to cause trouble and make noise so it’s hard for those that want answers to get them, keep going, you claim I’m not changing anyone’s opinion, but I doubt you speak for everyone. More people just read than write, and I’m not writing anything that substantiates your claims that I’m trying to hide or say misleading or false information.
The true difference here is, I’m not tryin to do battle with you, I’m just trying to address the real reason everyone’s here….to get answers.
Thank You.
Hi Terry
I quote your words here “no advertisers pay any money to BBI.”
Who on earth pays money to BBI? I can see only affiliates pay money to BBI, so there is only affiliate money to BBI.
“An affiliate will get twice the value of their original purchased inventory after the first 2 oomplimentary cycles have completed.”
Doesn’t that mean 100% return on amount of money they put in? They are also advised by seasoned BB affiliates such as Simon Stepsys to keep putting money in and not to withdraw early. Doesn’t it sound like a pyramid scheme?
“@Nick,
I’ll give you a bunch, AdBrite, Ad Magnet, DoubleClick, ExoClick, Infolinks, Zedo, Right Media, Kontera, Hydra Network, Clickbooth, BuySellAds. The Ad exchanges, due to the volume of ads and the geographic locations the ads come from have several servers on which the ads are distributed from.”
You referenced Double Click as BB ad network and now you rejected your own claim?
Terry, I think you don’t know a thing about online advertising. You may not know what Double Click was in first place when you replied the comment. Through your replies, you are exposed either to be an ignorant or blinded by greed to have yourself participate in this scam. You should be ashamed of yourself. The sad thing is this scam is exploiting the poor, the ignorant, and the elderly who suffer the most when this scam collapses.
Terrible reply Terry. Really dropped the ball on that one . 4,000,000 stolen from BB affiliates and we only get to hear it here in passing from PF guru Mr Terry. Amateur hour!
100,000,000+ profit and NOBODY in advertising knows about you! Pull the other one Terry. No one if falling for it. Keep waffling on though. You’re doing more damage to BB than we could ever do
I’ve seen my friends panels and the insane profits they ‘show’. They’re showing profits in the 1000%. Hilarious really except for when it crashes and burns and friends and families are ripped apart.
Keep up the good work buddy.
Terry, I can assure you I have no ulterior motive. I have no personal interest in whether BBI is a success or failure. A few month ago I was approached on the street by a woman trying to sell the concept to me, which was interesting as she had no clue what she was talking about. She had no idea about online advertising at all. I live in a small towm, and am known to be quite savyy about the internet, so more and more people have asked me about BB. To that end I thought I’d take a closer look. In my opinion there are several questions to be answered which BBI have so far been unable to do satisfactorily. Hopefully Finch will get somewhere with his questions. Personally I hope everything is above board as a lot of people who can’t afford to loose are “investing” in BB. If everything falls apart, in my town, babies are going to be without food. I for one would not want that on my conscience, so I tell people I would not invest in it. I could set up an account and quite easily recruit people but choose not to. Are you sure what you are telling us about how the system works is the correct, or are you just repeating what you have been told? Personally, with so much at stake, I’d want to see the design documentation for the software running the system, together with details of how it was implemented and tested before I would come out with the statements you are making. There are so many inconsistencies. The BBI website still states the network of sites is owned by BB, no mention of the blind network! Even if the questions are answered and the scheme is above board, BBI need to do something about how it is being sold! Ironically I know of one person who is actually selling it as a ponzi scheme!!!! When there is so much mis representation going on I would expect a responsible company to shutdown all sales until they find a way of controlling how people represent their company.
Terry, can you clarify this:
BBI buys traffic and ad space for $A.
BBI repackages traffic and ad space.
BBI resells traffic and ad space to affiliates for $B.
Affiliates buy traffic and ad space for $B.
Affiliates use traffic and ad space.
Affiliates generate revenue from advertising placed on the ad space they rent through panels.
BBI generates profit from the sale of additional traffic for $D.
BBI pays affiliates the differnce between ($B+$D)-$A = profit.
Points I’d like you to address:
1. Traffic means actual visitors to websites, viewing ads. What exactly is the nature of this huge bank of “traffic” that BB can buy in bulk quantities?
2. Once you have this traffic and “ad space” ready to resell, you are marking it up as you resell it to affiliates? $B is greater than $A, is that correct?
3. Once the affiliates sell their ad space (through your brokerage system), they will generate enough revenue after some time period such that they get back their original purchase price, plus double that amount — so effectively a 100% markup. Is this also correct?
4. BB continues to have ownership of that “ad space” originally purchased at the very beginning, and they continue to generate profit from selling that same ad space over and over again, after the affiliate has finished their 100% profit cycle — correct?
5. At the end of all of this, in a one-year period BB has paid out well over $150M to affiliates. This calculation is based on data from BB own website. Is that true?
If everything here is stated accurately, either the source costs involved or the reselling price point would have to be far (very far) outside of normal boundaries for the online advertising industry. Even more specifically, ad impressions, which have some of the lowest margins going right now.
Are you going on record with this business model, at this level of net profit across your affiliate base, generated out of a relationship with two ad network partners as you have previously disclosed — Clicksor and OpenX?
I respectfully ask for your response to these concerns.
Terry quick question about your “How it works”
BBI generates profit from the sale of additional traffic for $D.
Who is this additional traffic sold to?
The address, Terry? What is the address of the physical BBI offices? I’d have thought of all the questions asked here that would be the easiest one to answer.
Unless of course there is no BBI, just BB Limited, or Stellar Point Inc, as they’re now known.
That would certainly explain the need to use nominee directors and to move from tax haven to tax haven, in an attempt (as your representative, David Tree stated in a BB video) to keep one step ahead of the authorities.
So, does BBI really exist?
@Terry
I’d like to go through all the answers you gave, but it’s my night out tonight and I’m running late.
Feel free to show me how the maths work, show me how you sell at higher costs than everyone else.
I don’t care what you say, traffic is trackable, that’s what I’m asking to see, actual proof that ads are being placed somewhere.
Your excuse about paypal is just that, an excuse, I agree not everyone has paypal accounts, but it’s a trivial matter to register for one, MUCH MUCH easier than getting a Banners Broker card.
Then you have the option of transferring funds directly to bank accounts, do you have an excuse for this option as well ?. Cheaper as well.
“@Ditto Ditto,
What part about “are being notified” did you miss in my statement? Perhaps you should sit back and watch to see what happens rather than be so quick to comment.
No sir, you do not understand, but you like to paint the picture that you do.”
Ah, Terry. Can I just take you back a bit to the point I was trying to make about BB and the charges it makes.
See the bit about being charged for putting money in?
I’ve seen the screen that tells me that 5% charge was made for the initial investment. Putting in $100 – no it’s only $95!
See the bit about taking money out?
I’ve seen the screen that a charge was made to withdraw money. Taking out $100 – not it’s only $95.
That’s before you get to the little payment processors your company uses that takes another little slice of the action.
Then there’s the affiliate fees which were taken/not taken. Clawing a little bit more back into the ewallet. Most affiliates are afraid to withdraw anything because they have no idea when the next fee(s) will be taken and whether they will be backdated. They are afraid that their accounts will go into a “negative balance” and BB don’t pay out on negative balances do you? Perhaps you would like to check that with the people who run the “company”.
You are right sir, I DON’T understand how BB and the investment works and I never claimed that I did. But that’s the beauty of it isn’t it. It’s designed so that people don’t understand it. Sadly, I don’t think you understand it either as your answers here haven’t really answered anything.
Thank you.
“If you were actually who you say you are” writes Terry in response.
How do you talk sensibly to someone who comes out with that kind of statement?
Terry, believe it or not, I am who I say I am, I am an international accountant, I have been making international payments for donkeys years, I deal with international banks and international treasury departments on an almost daily basis and you are speaking nonsense.
Again, please answer this instead of avoiding the question: how do PayPal do it without getting certified copies of every PayPal member’s passport? Perhaps they rely on the credit card companies, and perhaps the credit card companies rely on the banks, and perhaps the banks know their customers because the customers and the banks are in the same place, unlike BB who seem to be nowhere and who’s bank appears to be in Belize (and WHY is BB’s house bank apparantly in Belize, and why is BB’s house bank incapable of making international electronic same day/next day payments?)
Again, if PayPal can accomplish this with just the credit card details of their customers, why are all of the payment organisations BB uses not capable of accomplishing the same within the same international money laundering laws and within the same time frame, and in some cases at the same cost as PayPal because in fact PayPal are less expensive than one of your online payers.
So please tell us all why money laundering laws stop your payers but don’t stop PayPal.
Money laundering laws are not there to catch the $20 or whatever for a maturing yellow panel, or even a couple of hundred dollars for people that have invested for longer.
I would guess that the vast majority of the tiny payments you actually make are far below any country’s bar for money laundering considerations to even be a factor.
Again Mr Stern, you are being obtuse and untruthful, or else you just do not know your job.
If you are correct, please have your banking and your by now infamous egal advisors quote us the specific law that will not allow BB to transfer $20 or $200 or $2,000 directly to an affiliates PayPal account or bank account by same day or next day electronic banking.
I await your response with great eagerness.
Swissskylue…One of Terry’s many problems with his explanations is that he uses logic but applies it to the wrong mechanisms. It is either deliberately or unintentionally misleading, but it is misleading.
You’re absolutely right. BB, says Terry, are not an ‘advertsing company’. I understand the logic in that. the affilates are the advertisers/publishers, BB ‘brokers’ them the space they need to promote their ‘business’ (which for virtually all affiliates is the ‘business’ of advertising BB as a way to make money!)….i.e. it’s like Sony paying Toshiba to advertise Toshiba’s products! It’s absurd.
In this case, he is trying to claim that BB is a payment processing company in order to justify a false premise. BB use STP and a Mastercard product to PROCESS payments. It is up to those companies to VERIFY the people they pay money to. NOT banners broker, whose only business is brokering banners and their associated products!
The payment processor earns ITS profit from PROSESSING PAYMENTS ON BEHALF OF BANNERS BROKER AND ITS AFFILIATES!…. Yes Terry…we’re part of that equation too! The processor absorb the risk and the costs if things go wrong, and we pay them for it. It’s twisted logic to suggest BB both needs an STP type of processor and IS one!
Terry makes it seem like a one way street whereby we should totally trust BB to handle or security info.(which they don’t need), whilst claiming that they would be foolish to hand over money to people who they have already happily taken money off!
It wouldn’t be quite so ridiculous if BB’s verification process had managed to prevent ONE affilate from extracting 40 MILLION dollars from the company. Something, he suggests, is of no concern to HONEST affiliates who would like to believe they are dealing with compentent, straightforward and trustworthy intermediaries!
Terry, you’re a fool who has just shown the world that you are nothing but a liar who knows nothing about the online advertising industry!
The members of the magical “The Blind Network” that you gave me are 100% what I said they are.
Are you trying to tell me that Clickbooth is not a CPA network, but a gigantic blind network? Well that is funny as I was just at their party at Affiliate Summit West in Vegas and they seem to think they are not a blind network either.
Hmmmm, the easiest thing for someone who is not in the industry to do to confirm what a bunch of lying scumbags you are is to just Google “Clickbooth” and you will see that you are full of shit. You can also do the same for Hydra & Zedo as well.
Oh and Terry I didn’t say I worked FOR them, I said I worked WITH them, but if you like I am more than happy to have the CEO of Clickbooth talk to the news services to verify that they are not a massive blind ad network and also that they have never worked with you guys and that you are full of shit.
One question I have for you Terry, is the info you have given to me about those “Blind Networks”, is this information that you yourself have personally verified or is it something that you have been told by your overlords?
If it was just told to you then I suggest you use Google to find out that the information is not true and thus verifying that you are working for a bunch of scammers, however if you claim that the information is verified by you then you have just confirmed that you are not just an employee of some PR company, you are actually complicit in the scam and I would bet would be held to account in a court of law.
Big mistake my friend.
Terry has been really quite today. This makes me sad as it’s been comedy gold so far. I wonder has he been banned by BB for uttering the dreaded ‘investment’ word. Balls being dropped all over the place by their PR guru.
Ha ha!
Bad Terry. Bad Terry!
Just in case you’re too lazy to Google it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickbooth
Terry Stein,
there’s a bug in the …/main/… at your frontend (website)
“Policies and Procedures
May 29, 2012 – Last Updated”
Someone need too throw in the towel here for Terry. Raj? Chris? Nick is destroying Terry with a little guy called ‘Facts’.
Very entertaining in some respects and hopefully anyone reading who was tempted/coerced/lied to,might think otherwise and keep their money and not give it to these piece of shit scumbags. That’s why this blog is here. It’s for people reading here, at this moment, and thinking of joining.
The sooner this collapses the better. It will be too late for many, many people. Families will be torn apart, friendships will be lost, elderly people will be scammed out of money they can ill-afford to lose, and it’s frightening to think, but it’s more than likely that lives will be taken through the darkness that BB has brought into their lives.
Think long and hard people before you ‘Invest’ money with these scumbags.
Lives WILL be destroyed.
@Anti-Scam Watchdog,
As I’ve said before, we pay the Brokers for the ad space and traffic, and in return they pay us for the revenue we’ve generated from the banners they’ve placed in the ad space that corresponds to the traffic we’ve purchased and applied to it. The company also generates revenue from the affiliates who purchase packages and traffic from us.
Yes, ASW, it does mean a 100% return on the amount they’ve put in, and the advice they’re given is done on the premise that they’re interested in building an online business, which will require them to appropriately address the needs of their business through revenue management, but doesn’t say pyramid since the only place the money goes is to BBI, and no affiliates generates any revenue off of other affiliates.
The question from Nick was to list a bunch of Ad Networks that were involved in the blind network. I made no claims to being involved with any of them.
You have an easy time issuing insults but a hard time accepting the facts. Are you even open to having your opinion changed through being given the proper information?
@Madoff,
You are more interested in just being angry and ignorant than you are at paying attention to what I’m saying before responding.
I didn’t say 4,000,000 was stolen from affiliates, so please don’t say I did. I repeatedly state that BBI is not in the advertising industry, not an advertiser, and doesn’t solicit advertising, so your comments are moot.
IF they’re showing profits in the 1000% plus range, then they’ve been at it for a while, because, as I’ve stated repeatedly, returns in that range take time to generate, they do not happen instantaneously or quickly.
@Steve,
I know how the system works, because unlike many, I’ve actually stopped, looked at what was presented, and did my own research on the viability of the claims made by BBI before I started with them.
This is one of my problems with all of you. You ask ridiculous questions and make outlandish requests and complain when the company denies them. Of course you can’t see the design documents on proprietary software, no-one except the software engineers who are building the software do see it.
If there are inconsistencies, please specifically point them out and I’ll address them to fill in the blanks. Don’t keep hitting me with out-of-context questions relating to claims tied to inaccurate information and state I’m in the wrong. I’ve pieced it all together many times so it flows…I can’t figure out what you’re missing.
Stellar Point was contracted and staffed to do just what you’re stating. Our role is to address and correct the message and training materials that have been used, in order to correct the language to make it more accurate and compliant with governmental regulations…not to mention just make sense.
If you know of someone selling it at a ponzi scheme, please submit their name to compliance@stellarpoint.ca so that they can act on it immediately and correct it. IF you know and you refuse to address it, you’re just as guilty of allowing it to move forward as you’ve accused us to be.
Our international Independent Consultants and General Managers have actually been here at Stellar Point undergoing training regarding the program, the process and given new materials to use so that they can return to their regions and begin the process of doing just that..correcting the message going out.
Unfortuntely, BBI, because of the nature of the business, can’t just shut down operations. Even if we did state that we didn’t want any affiliates recruiting, history shows us that some won’t listen and will continue to do recruiting in lieu of our request. Remember, the affiliates don’t work for BBI, they’re independent business owners looking to grow their own businesses. All we can do is work to ensure that we supply them with the proper materials to use, put a well trained instructional team together to teach them how to use those materials, and assign a team to go after those who have gotten it wrong and stop them.
@Chuck,
1. As I’ve stated, we purchase traffic (impressions) from the Ad Networks as part of our agreement with them. We purchase in bulk in growing quantities so we receive better and better pricing each time we purchase.
2. That is correct. Every company marks up their products for resale.
3. No, that’s not quite correct. Once the panels in whichever package they have purchased have gone through the 2 complimentary cycles, they will have the equivilent of twice the value of their initial inventory purchase. The initial purchase value, and a matching amount in inventory panels.
4. Essentialy yes. BBI always retains ownership of the ad space it has purchased. Each affiliate rents the space from us which is represented by the panels in their inventory. When a panel completes its cycle, in some cases BBI generates revenue from it until another affiliate rents it, in others it passes directly to another affiliate.
5. Yes, so far in this statement you are correct.
Even at low margins, purchasing at discounted rates in bulk, and spreading that over 300,000+ affiliates, BBI is able to generate a steady profit from it. It’s assumed that BBI generates a substantial profit equal or greater than what it pays out. BBI generates sufficient revenue that it’s able to pay its affiliates a generous return on their purchases, while maintaining a steady profit for itself.
I have established no level of net profit nor will I, the business model has been stated many times on multiple platforms, and I haven’t changed it here. I’ve only confirmed 2 networks that BBI deals with, I have not limited it there however, and I will not confirm others, as these 2 are evidence that the company is not only capable of delivering on its obligations, but being joined by others in order to meet new ones.
@Steve,
The additional traffic is sold to affiliates for use in activating or accellerating their panel’s cycle.
@Theseus,
Once again, the Stellar Point offices are the contact point for BBI. If you wish to meet with a member of BBI’s corporate staff, as their appointed management arm, we make the arrangements and handle it. There is no secret that many of the world’s leading companies have ‘brass plate’ corporate offices located off-shore in addition to regional offices that oversee each country. Instead of remaining Banners Broker Limited and being restricted to doing business with BBI, the name was changed to Stellar Point to enable the company to be able to service additional clients. The function of Stellar Point is to provide oversight, management consulting and support services on behalf of BBI in each region it serves.
David Tree is not an official representative of the company, he is an affiliate.
@Seven Howard,
Here’s the thing people aren’t getting. We work through a Broker, who handles the details regarding traffic and advertising shown in the ad space we purchase from them. What you’re asking is for us to provide you with information they have elected not to release.
The issue regarding PayPal actually isn’t valid. Some countries can do everything, some can only send money, some can’t receive money, so on and so forth. A lot of this comes from various regulations in those countries as well as regulations in the U.S. so PayPal isn’t an option globally for us to use. The Payment Processer we’re using that handles our BB Card, processes loads to those cards daily, and delivers those payouts promptly. If there’s an issue with not being paid on the card, it’s due to either a) you haven’t set it up with the company, b) you havne’t checked the email you’ve set up with the card, c) you don’t have enough room on the card for the amount you’ve requested to be posted, d) your account was in the negative at the time the amount was to be posted. If none of the above apply and you’re not getting your payouts, then there is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed and you should contact support to have it addressed. 90% of all payouts complete successfully. Those that don’t are usually as a result of the above, or a matter of having the ID on file needing addressing prior to being paid out.
Again, since International banking regulations differ from country to country, and some having issues with money laundering, this can’t be used as an option. Whatever payment methods are offered by BBI have to be acceptable to all affiliats everywhere, not just some in country A, some in country B, etc. This is the reason we use 3rd party payment processors, because they’ve met and passed the regulations of the countries we do business in.
@Ditto Ditto,
The fees that are charged are explained in the T&C that you signed when you became an affiliate, so I will direct your attention there.
If you don’t understand, then I suggest you get in contact with the Independent Contractor or Stellar Point General Manager that oversees your region so that they can get you into a training session to ensure that you do get an understanding of how the system works.
@SwissBlueSky,
PayPal actually is formally a bank, and as such has their own policies, rules and regulations that apply to foreign transfers, and are also subject to the regulations and policies of foreign banks. This might also explain why PayPal isn’t available to every country, and in limited capacities in the countries they do service. I’m surprised you didn’t know that. PayPal also freezes many accounts for suspicion of money laundering or illegal activities and having the account re-activated can take an absurd amount of time on occasions. This level of interruption would be even more so detrimental to our doing business.
The amount of money that BBI transfers on a regular basis is not a matter of $20 here and $400 there…it amounts to the tens to hundreds-of-thousands of dollars per transfer because it handles the payments to many affiliates not just a few.
I think I’ve done a pretty good job at explaining myself now, if any of you are worth what you claim to be, your professional knowledge and research should be able to confirm that since I’ve also verified that the information is readily available for you to confirm.
What I’m waiting to see with great eagerness, is for someone to come back and state that after researching my statements, that I’m actually correct and in fact stating the truth.
Wouldn’t that be nice, but I highly doubt anyone posting here has that level of integrity, because that would mean admitting that I’m telling the truth and BBI could actually be a legitimate company after all.
Terry Stein,
there’s STILL a MAJOR bug in the …/main/… at your frontend (website)
“Policies and Procedures
May 29, 2012 – Last Updated”
what fuck IT-company is that?
Terry, unfortunately your trying to explain things to a bunch of opinionated, self obsessed, impatient pricks. I’d just spend your time answering finch.
Other Steve, you are wrong, we are just trying to clarify how BB works. Terry has been very helpful and I now know exactly how BB works. Thankyou Terry.
Well I was going to leave for the weekend, however, I have to address some falsehoods in your responses.
@D. Pressed,
You are still wrong, the affiliates are not the advertisers/publishers, they are renting space and buying traffic. They have the ability to start advertising campaigns through their back offices, whereby they can advertise their BBI business, but they have to do that themselves.
I have not stated BB is a payment processing company, once again you’re putting words into my mouth. BB is actually ceasing using STP and Payza and transitioning to the BB Card exclusively, since payments are prompt and done in a more frequent manner. Once again, I’ve never stated BB was a processor, and would appreciate your not saying I have.
I’m unfamiliar with your legal degree or degree in international finance as it pertains to the transference of funds to international banking institutions. Can you please explain where your information comes from? Each country and each bank in that country has its own rules and regulations on how it handles transactions from off-shore banks. Since there are so many rules, some overlapping, some not, BBI has protocols and procedures in place to protect itself and to remain compliant with those off-shore banks, and to ensure that it’s no liable should one of the affiliates be liable for improper activities.
Wow, it’s 40 Million now is it, and it’s now an issue with our verification process? Interesting how things are getting just made up now by you. Keep going, you’re demonstrating to everyone reading that it’s not BBI in fact that’s the problem, but people like yourself that are spreading lies about who they are and what they’re doing. I hope the rest of you are taking notes here.
@Nick,
Sir, I have not lied about any of the content I’ve posted, and I challenge you to prove I have with posting evidence, not just your word that I have.
I said that those companies were part of the Blind Network, not individual blind networks. You keep twisting my words and those of others to make it look like you’re the one with the truth, when in fact you aren’t. Please have one of the people you were speaking to at the summit contact me, my information has been posted and if not, I would ask Finch to provide it to you please if requested….or provide it to me so I can contact them to validate your claim. I would love to discover what was actually said.
Once again, you have twisted my words, I have never said that we were working with them, I was asked to list them. People here think that they’re clever twisting my words, but you’re just demonstrating my point for me, very few if any of you are actually interested in the facts and/or truth, you’re only interested in baseless allegations against BBI through twisting what’s been said.
I’ve personally looked up the information surrounding what constitutes the “blind network” both for the internet as well as the mobilnet. I’ve looked at the companies, verified that they are what BBI claims they are, and can provide what BBI claims they do. I actually did this before accepting employment with BBI. I find it strange that none of you actually have, but claim to.
Your accusations are baseless, your evidence flawed and inaccurate. You can stomp your feet and wave your fists all you want, but the fact of the matter is, you have no argument. I’ve already shown who we are, where we are, how we do what we do in simple, easy to follow terms. I’ve backed up my statements, and caught your attempts to accuse me of stating things I haven’t. Anyone reading this who knows how to search on Google, can research for themselves what the blind network is, what ad networks are and how they work, they don’t need you to misquote the information for them. By now they should be seeing that people like you have an agenda that isn’t about exposing the truth, but rather to smear the name of a good company.
@andreasheinz,
I’m afraid you aren’t being clear with what you’re stating. Please explain.
@Madoff,
Do you really think you’re winning this discussion? With all the inaccuracies that you and others have been posting, the mistakes you’ve made in the statements you’re making, and the blatant attempts to draw sympathy where there is no need for…you actually think anything you’ve said has substantiated your claims against BBI, or do you think perhaps you’re at risk for actually being seen for what you are, adolescent troublemakers getting their kicks at others expense?
———–
This is my last post to respond to anything here. I will focus on responding to Finch’s questions, as best I can tell, I can trust him to be objective and do what he says he will.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you all. I’ve enjoyed the exchange.
You’re correct that I’m angry Terry. I lost a dear friend of over 25 years because of BB. He won’t talk to me any more because of your insidious ‘business’-as he has been infected by the cult-like lies and deceit you shills perpetrate to people that know no better.
You’re right that I’m angry Terry, because you’re coming on here trying to distort reality with your waffle-esque ,long-winded turd-riddled replies.
You’re doing this Terry because it’s damage limitation for you and the scumbags you represent. You’re doing this terry because simple math is not in your favour now and you and the shitheads you represent know this.
The clusterfuck ponzi you represent Terry is reaching it’s death knell now where the exponential growth that is needed cannot be fed, so fuckwits like you are dragged out to have one more throw of the dice in order to deceive a few more people.
I’m very angry Terry, but I live in the real world where I perform a task at work that creates a product and is sold to a consumer and taxes are paid which goes towards paying for the society I live in.
I’m BETTER than you Terry.
You don’t have the balls to make a living in the real world because you’re an ugly flawed human being that is only capable of robbing money from those that can least afford it.
The proof is in the pudding.
Scum.
P.S Apologies for going on a rant but is there any point is putting up with this utter nonsense from the human sludge AKA Terry any more. It’s a façade that terry is trying to create. Sorry Finch for not being nice!
P.P.s Go fuck yourself terry, you ugly, flawed human being.
Didn’t mean you steve, didn’t mean everybody
Terry,
– sorry to say
– have a nice weekend
– thank you
– kind regards
– see you (next week)
Madoff, maybe you should have done your due diligence before you signed your friend and maybe your friend should have done his before he signed up, or maybe your just a totally shit sponsor and he’s a thick twat who was never much of a friend anyway, or did you convince him to stick more money in than he could afford, maybe your part of this big problem, your just a ranting tit.
Terry, If you don’t want to respond on here any more I suggest you check out the latest post on http://www.onlinemlm.info
An analysis of how you said Banners Broker Works in your own words!
Madoffshit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYotUX6FFyg&list=FLU36re6N_3npXH2FKgx7pUg&shuffle=81755
goodnight
@steve. The reason we’re no longer friends is because he had already joined when we fell out. I have never been a member of BB.
BTW, stick your ‘Due diligence’ where the sun don’t shine. I have never heard that term used so much by people who have no comprehension of what it means. The fact you used it tells me all I need to know about you.
Irony overload!
@Terry
This is my last post to respond to anything here. I will focus on responding to Finch’s questions, as best I can tell, I can trust him to be objective and do what he says he will.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you all. I’ve enjoyed the exchange.
——————————————————————————
Terry’s been beaten and he knows it.
I was deliberately nice to him, knowing that if we gave him enough rope he would hang himself.
You see they play this game where they fill people full of shit, play on peoples greed, hopes and emotions.
The only way to beat these guys is to play them at their own game, safe in the knowledge that sooner or later they will trip up.
We would never convince the vast majority of BB investors about the Ponzi BB is, they will realise when it’s too late and their cash has gone.
What we will have managed to do is to cast large degrees of doubt in (potential) new investors minds.
If BB collapses soon, we were correct, if they survive for years we were wrong.
If BB isn’t a PONZI, it doesn’t need new afilliates, in which case they WILL survive.
Terry obviously didn’t enjoy the exchange, he’s coming out badly.
Fair doos madoff, you talk some shite.
@Terry
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS “THE BLIND NETWORK”!! How can you not get it into your thick skull. Please point me to a page anywhere on the internet that shows Clickbooth is anything but a CPA network with a small and relatively new PPC network that IS NOT BLIND. I have pointed you to their Wikipedia entry and you are still trying to say that I am not stating facts.
Please Finch when you ask him your questions do not let him off the hook about Clickbooth and Hydra. That alone proves that they are not part of the online advertising industry and are a bunch of (not very smart) liars.
Anyone who signs up to Banners Broker after this exchange is a fool!
Seven Howard, your a prick as well.
@Madoff,
It was quite obvious to me that you hadn’t introduced your friend, you tried to do what good friends do, look out for each other.
Don;t feel bad, I’ve been in a similar situation, helped out what I thought were friends out only to find I’ve been used.
Better to find out after 25 years though than 30,40 or 50.
You have my sympathies.
The worst thing is Steve(whichever Steve you are!) is that he’s a really good guy. I miss him as a friend but the damage is done.
I can’t even comprehend the fallout when BB collapses. What really gets me is the vast majority of people that get sucked in are decent people but they are the type of people that NEED the kind of money being offered in order to make their life better.
It beggers belief to try and understand how you could be involved in something like this at the higher level. Unfortunately you’re always going to get people who can’t operate in the real world due to their sociopathic/narcissistic weaknesses and take the easy option of robbing the weak and feeble.
I wish there was Karma!
Sorry Steve Howard. I know who you are now. So many Steves!
All the best buddy. keep fighting the good fight”
The reason I came back to this thread was because I was able to communicate directly with the organ grinder, not the monkeys!
Although Nick, Finch et al undoubtedly make salient points, based on their own knowledege of their ‘industry’; they override much of the good they do through their abusive, sarcastic, patronising, arrogant attitude.
If people like Nick and Finch are the face of ‘legitimate’ advertising on the internet, then they are not doing THEIR line of work any favours by presenting themselves in such an unprofessional manner.
There seems to be a feeling on here that in order to form rational, evidential statements about the farcical inconsistencies, contradictions and inaccuracies of Terry’s defence; ‘we’ have some sort of duty to like/respect/congratulate other people involved in internet marketing.
It’s not entirely about legality. Terry has presented a load of unsubstantiated/ridiculous circumstantial tosh dressed up as fact and decried others for ‘not understanding’ his explanations; or only presenting ‘circumstantial evidence’ themselves.
But at least he has been unfailingly polite and civil in his failed attempts to convince me (as Finch did) that I’m deluded and full of shit! 😉
He’s being unfailingly polite because he is playing a game and is being paid to do so. He is trying to change peoples perception of reality in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Finch and Nick will destroy him eventually, even though it will be death by a thousand cuts due to Terry replying with the ‘twisting words’ argument in an orgy of convulsed prose.
BTW, Finch hasn’t replied n a long time so no idea how you’re getting the sarcastic tone from Finch when he’s not been here.
Kisses.
Ok D.Pressed lets look it from the position that you KNOW that someone is a scammer, scamming your friends, relatives and little old ladies. He comes on to a site not to clear anything up or answer any real questions, only to try to confuse the issue and blur the line of reality and fakery for people who know no different.
I am not debating with him, I am calling him out as a liar and a scammer and have proved without a shadow of a doubt that he is, so why do you have a problem with me calling him a fuckface as well? Who the fuck are you anyway? Why do you care how I treat this scammer?
Was just pondering where Terry got that odd mixed bag of online advertising companies names from, as on the surface they aren’t connected or doing the same thing in the business (some are CPA networks, some are advertising networks and one is an ad server), then I had a brain wave, if someone had no knowledge of the industry how would they come up with a list of advertising networks in a hurry? How about Googling “advertising networks”. So I did this and what was in the first position? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_advertising_networks
hahah
Thats how he came up with that list of magical networks a messed up hodgepodge list of networks on a wikipedia entry.
Note that all the networks he mentioned appear on that list, even though there are thousands if not tens of thousands of advertising networks online. Coincidence? I think not. Also how a company like Hydra appeared on his list even though it was bought by Adknowlege a few years ago.
hahaha, busted!
I was wrong…Just read that Terry has attacked a typo. in one of my posts…ok FOUR MILLION…..I stand corrected, but it was a typo. NOT a ‘lie’. Your sarcasm does you no favours either. And shows how seriously you take this serious fraud. i.e. not at all.
At least you’ve admitted that you set up your protocols to AVOID LIABILITY from yourselves and place it firmly on the heads of the old and the vulnerable who don’t understand the business they have been mis-sold. IN MY OPINION BACKED UP BY RATIONAL ANALYSIS OF THE FACTS:
YOU SAY: Each country and each bank in that country has its own rules and regulations on how it handles transactions from off-shore banks. Since there are so many rules, some overlapping, some not, BBI has protocols and procedures in place to protect itself and to remain compliant with those off-shore banks, and to ensure that it’s no liable should one of the affiliates be liable for improper activities.
Just because you don’t specifically say something doesn’t mean that it is or isn’t true! And just because I haven’t got a degree in bullshit doesn’t mean that I can’t recognise it when I see it spewing out of the mouths of others!!
YOU SAY: I’m unfamiliar with your legal degree or degree in international finance as it pertains to the transference of funds to international banking institutions. Can you please explain where your information comes from?
You’re being a sarcastic in order to attempt to belittle me. To paraphrase you:
Terry, I’ve never stated that I have a legal degree or degree in international finance, and would appreciate your not saying I have.
You left yourself wide open for that one Terry….there are some very bright people on this forum and you won’t get away with playing that kind of mind games trick successfully.
YOU SAY:
I have not stated BB is a payment processing company, once again you’re putting words into my mouth. BB is actually ceasing using STP and Payza and transitioning to the BB Card exclusively, since payments are prompt and done in a more frequent manner. Once again, I’ve never stated BB was a processor, and would appreciate your not saying I have.
You are now telling blatant lies (if you weren’t already). The BB mastercard is not a quicker way to get paid. I know of many affilates who ordered theirs months ago and haven’t received it. Your reasoning for stopping using STP has nothing to do with failings of STP. They process millions of payments a day. IT IS BB THAT FAILS TO NOTIFY STP ABOUT PAYMENT REQESTS BECAUSE WE REQEST THEM OFF YOU. It is so that you can justify the thing I accused you of…taking confidential information from clients that you don’t need….and then blame STP for being slow. You didn’t say you aren’t a processor,I agree, but it doesn’t mean you aren’t creating the illusion of being one. AND A REALLY BAD ONE AT THAT!
You say: You are still wrong, the affiliates are not the advertisers/publishers, they are renting space and buying traffic. They have the ability to start advertising campaigns through their back offices, whereby they can advertise their BBI business, but they have to do that themselves.
You really are becoming a sick joke Terry. I’m angry now too because you’re becoming patronising, childish AND insulting my intelligence.
So, when I bought an ‘ADVERTISING/PUBLISHING COMBINATION BUSINESS’ aka the Ad/Pub Combo., I was actually creating an RENT SPACE/BUY TRAFFIC COMBO. ‘business’….. Which is exactly what I now know I bought… a worthless, unusable empty space of nothingness. And if the affilates aren’t buying adverts, and advertisers aren’t, and you’re not and the company you bought the space from aren’t…then NO ONE IS!! Renting space is not a business to me when I have no use for it. Buying traffic is no use to me if there is nothing in that space for people to buy. I have the ability to start advertising campaigns through my back office, whereby I can advertise my BBI business, but I have to do that themselves.
Yes, I did do that myself. It took about twenty minutes. It comprised uploading some of your ‘in house’ banners which advertise BB. Not one of those banners has earned me any revenue. If they did, my panels would complete at a faster rate.
I will go into my back office, and cancel ALL my ad. campaigns for BB. That means I no longer advertise BB. Therefore, my panel completion will hopefully (and sensibly) grind to a halt! But they won’t because the ‘algorithm’ that the panels run on has nothing to do with anything that I do whatsoever with regard to advertising or publishing!
Your explanation amounts to an admittance that BB are selling utter rubbish under FALSE PRETENCES’. You don’t need to say that Terry. I am intelligent enough to deduce it for myself from my rational research into the evidence and your explanations on here.
I don’t need any qualifications to deduce how ignorant (or untruthful) you are of the NECESSARY payment procedures in the UK, the delays in payments by YOUR processing department and the ways that you could EASILY process payments legally via a third party. I have no reason to believe the mastercard will turn out to be anything more than a useless piece of plastic in exchange for a whole raft of information which leaves ME open to IDENITY THEFT.
If someone can misapporopriate $4m so easily from somewhere in the system, and given that you accept no liability for that; why should I trust BB not to let my personal information be ‘misappropriated’? Given that you’re now accusing me of lying (via a typo.), whilst presenting a whole heap of lies of your own on here, I wouldn’t trust BBI to look after my bike for ten minutes while I pop into a shop for a pint of milk.
Terry…you’re absurd apologist for a dysfunctional, exploitative organisation whose only interest is self-interest.
I know you haven’t actually said those things and you could ‘appreciate me not saying them’, but on the basis that they’re my true beliefs based on factual evidence combined with your own words in reply to many questions on here; then I’ve said them. And stand by them.
My mistake, he actually Googled “list of advertising networks”
Terry, thank you for answering my questions. I was interested in understanding how that $150M of profit was realized, after you had explained the whole process of buying traffic and ad inventory, then selling it to affiliates, then brokering the utility of that inventory for them through your network partners.
One thing more could use clarification, though. There have been several statements from various BB insiders, including Chris Smith on at least one web-based Q&A session, where the following claims were made. I am paraphrasing so please don’t red-card me if I don’t get the words exactly correct:
a. Chris Smith went to all the big ad brokers, over two years ago, and only one of the smaller ones caught his vision and agreed to work with him.
b. Now that BB has demonstrated so much success, the other brokers are showing interest — and very late last year (I believe November timeframe, coincident with the Ireland event), a statement was made that one of the “big” ad networks agreed to work with BB now.
I’m assuming those are Clicksor and OpenX, respectively. However, your response to me hinted that “others” are part of the business relationship now.
Could you clarify — the profit returned to affiliates in 2012, was that based predominantly on the Clicksor relationship, with OpenX entering the mix very late in the year? Or were the statements from Chris Smith incorrect and there really were more ad network partners engaged, throughout 2012?
I saw a post saying you were not going to respond here any further. I’m sorry to hear that, and if it is the case I would ask the owner of this blog to please carry this question in since it is an important part of validating how BB satisfies the profit liabilities it incurs through the affiliate relationship.
Great question Chuck. Best of luck with getting an answer!
It seems pretty clear at this stage, to anyone looking in, that Terry is out of his depth.
To be fair to Terry, it’s possible that he has been employed by BB for some PR expertise, and is unaware of what he has got himself into. I might have been too strong in my language earlier and not aware of the situation Terry has got himself into. If that’s the case Terry, then you have my sincere apologise.
You wouldn’t be the first person to get caught up in this web of deceit.
Really sorry if this is the case my Terry.
Nick:
In answer to your questions:
Who the fuck are you anyway?
I am someone who put several £100’s of my own money into a proposition sold to me under false pretences. That proposition is ‘Banners Broker’.
Furthermore, I have not been able to get withdraw my initial amount paid, for nearly five months despite reasonable requests as per their ToC.
Why do you care how I treat this scammer?
Firstly, I don’t accept your ‘proof’ that BB is a scammer any more than I accept Stern’s ‘proof’ that BB is legitimate. Neither is proof that relates to my specific knowledge of how internet marketing works. The technical stuff is just your word against his.
What I do have is an intellect to decide for myself, on the balance of ALL the evidence on this thread, on other forums, Finch’s initial statement regarding the junk websites etc., that the business model presented to me by the affiliate/rep. WAS in line with BB’s official presentation methods AND was grossly misleading. To the extent that a plausible, viable business model is actually an unworkable, irrational one. And that it is in fact primarily an offline business, not an online one. i.e. the ‘world tour’ is the model for getting individuals like me to sign up for things they don’t understand by doing so in a comfortable ‘face to face’ environment.
What I do care about is that Banners Broker is not the only online business/affilate scheme/marketeer or whatever. There are millions of alleged opportunities being offered on the internet via adverstising. On the basis that you Nick, are involved in online advertising and Finch is involved in online affiliate marketing, it disturbs me to think that you too are, in your different ways, ruthless, arrogant and unsavoury people to deal with.
I have no idea whether you operate in a reputable, legal company or not. I do care though, that you’re prepared to abuse, belittle and swear at someone you don’t know (me) online, hust because you can. I care that the industry you work in enables you to treat people like shit when you’re hiding in the shadows of anonimity, but whom you wouldn’t dare to confront in the same manner if I were to arrive at your offline office where generally, people display manners, dignity and respect to their clientele, because they know there is nowehere to hide. It’s hard to respect any ‘businessman’ who engages a line of questioning with ‘who the fuck are you anyway?’
On the net…everywhere is a hiding place and everyone can be whoever they want to be. Sadly, it brings out the worst aspects of human behaviour and as such I think there are genuine reasons to care about the future of retail and finance as the world increasingly resorts to emotional, rather than rational outbursts and attitudes and can easily evade the consequences of their actions on others.
Holy fuck. D.Pressed just did a poo on the interweb!
D.Pressed, change your name to gibberish!
Wow!
Madoff…Similarly, the whole point of getting Terry involved in this discussion was to give him a chance to state his case via a sensible debate.
He may well have stayed around longer, letting more cats out of the bag along the the lines of the $4m misapproriation, which would have helped to show how poorly BB communicates directly with the affiliate network and further undermine their credibility as a company that cares about the people it deals with.
He may also have come up with further contradictions which provided greater evidence that his defence of BB is at best contradictory and misleading and at worst, illegal.
However, by littering the forum with personal abuse, you and others, like Steve; have given him an easy get out clause…. Indeed why should he hang around here talking bb to people who shout, swear and rant at him all the time?
As for this:
BTW, Finch hasn’t replied n a long time so no idea how you’re getting the sarcastic tone from Finch when he’s not been here.
Kisses.
All it does is reveal YOUR ignorance and sarcasm. A long time? Try a few days, maybe a week ago. Obviously you haven’t read the whole thread…not even going back a week, never mind the beginning of this whole thing back in October. Therefore ALL of your comments are emotional outburst stated out of context from bits picked out incoherently. And therefore worthless in any sensible discussion.
IF you’d read the thread, you’d know I also lost a good friend because of the fallout from BB’s non-payment and non-compliance with truth policies. In fact, you may be the person I encouraged to vent on here about that sad situation a while back…There was someone I replied to along those lines….I’d have to check though to be sure.
Btw…I noticed a few more typos. in my recent posts…I apologise for my low grade typing and proof reading skills, but would like to make clear that they are typos. and not’lies’. As was suggested by Mr Stern in regard to one of my typing slips, when he too found himself resorting to the same unpleasant and uninformative tactics utilised by others against him.
I fear your apology to him has come too late Madoff, but it doesn’t matter too much if he does or doesn’t say any more on here. In fact, perhaps the fact that his human reality betrayed his PR image after a few days, IS informative with regard to how people in and out of BB will view his performance in the role to which he has been assigned!
Madoff says:
January 18, 2013 at 5:56 pm
Holy fuck. D.Pressed just did a poo on the interweb!
D.Pressed, change your name to gibberish!
Wow!
I SAY:
Please read my latest post carefully. The one I made before finding the above missive from you on my laptop screen. Then have a think about your behaviour, make yourself a cup of cocoa or something to relax your mind, and go to bed.
Goodnight.
I agree with you about the 4,000,000 D.Pressed. It’s a shocking nugget of information to hear from Terry and not from an official missive from the BB hierarchy. You would never see this behaviour from Coca Cola or Toyota.
This whole thread is getting very messy to be frank. It’s possible that I’ve been a part of that.If that’s the case then I apologise.
t would be great to hear from Chris and Raj on the current situation in BB. I fully appreciate that Terry has been employed to do a job and, to be fair, he has done his best with the information that has been fed to him.
Hopefully you will get lucky and get some money back. The whole BB is just a big sorry mess.
All the best.
Thanks Madoff. I understand it’s an emotional subject, people have different reasons for posting. Some are in BB, others posturing from the outside as self proclaimed experts, others genuinely trying to add insight and analysis to a very complex infrastructure which is primarily evidenced by theory rather than undeniable fact.
Like you I’m angry, not just with BB, with the behaviour of others who post here, but with myself for falling for the oldest trick in the book.
It looked too good to be true, I said as much to my friend,…and yet I STILL went against common sense in search for the quick fix dream to supplement my modest income. It was foolish, but the reason I’m not replying to you as you did me is because I can EMPATHISE with your feelings. Those who haven’t put any money into BB can call it what they want, attack or defend it;, but deep down, they don’t empathise with the fact that for some people a few £100’s is a lot of money relative to their income. A few £1,000’s is a fortune. Fich can to some degree via some friends/relatives, but I can’t help wondering WHY these people didn’t ask for his advice before they put money into something which Finch has the ability to incredible ‘due diligence’ on their behalf? That’s a question to which there is no logical answer, because if my brother/son/uncle ran an internet affiliate business the first person I would ask for advice on its viability before going for it would be HIM! It’s a valid point, but not one I expect Finch to address because he’d say it’s ‘off topic’.
People like Nick and Finch claim to be very successful businessmen. That being true (me having no reason to deny it), presumably they make a lot more than the minimum wage! They ‘live the dream’ it seems. It’s all very well though, boasting about travelling the world, living the high life in hotels while running a successful online business, but, like the internet itself, it can disconnect such people from the reality of the lives of the people who they make THEIR money from. Finch seems to feel aggrieved for his nearest and dearest, but treats people in exactly the same boat as an exercise in psychology…is fascinated by our delusion greed. Check back the thread and you WILL find him say that about me, and others whoi signed up to BB, but not about his ‘nearest and dearest’! That is not buisiness; or logic. It’s bias and/or discrimination.
So it isn’t about envy, but empathy. If someone on a low wage buys a junk banner off BB for $10, they will have to WORK cleaning toilets, or pushing trolleys for an hour or more to get that back. Similarly, if that person buys an E-Book off one of an internet marketeer or one of his ‘affilaites’ about how to make money from, say, online casinos and it turns out to be a piece of crap with no logical premise, then not only has another small dream been broken for the low paid worker hoping to get off the treadmill; but that person has to work another hour just to get back the money they spent on that rubbish download.
It’s all very well for people ‘in the industry’ to mock, laugh and deride naievity (or lack of due diligence); but naive people are often desperate people who NEED £50 to pay a bill, more than some of these marketeers want £100 to buy a bottle of champagne. There is a total disconnect of understanding and motivation which imo. is extremely unhealthy. Also, it is extremely difficult for the layman to do accurate research when people claiming to understand the same industry from the inside end up with completely opposing opinions, contradict themselves, have biased agendas of their own. And end up calling each other liars and asking me ‘who the fuck I am’ or telling me I’m ‘boring, deluded and full of shit’….
And, whether they tell truth or lies, people rarely care about people they communicate with on the internet because we’re not people are we? We’re just words on a page, or a processer’s payment number, or a banner, or a blogger or a boring, off topic non-entity that is full of shit.
The reason BB has been successful thus far is primarily because they use old fashioned ‘face to face’ meetings to endgender trust and respect in their target, but then take themselves out of that reality and hide amongst the shadows of online networks, processes, systems and a multitude of bank accounts in places like Belize, thereby completely disasociating themselves from the very process and environment that they used to attract the person into believing their hype!
Terry Stern has tried to translate that offline charm onto an online discussion forum and failed dismally. That’s because he is a deeply flawed human being; as we all are. Maybe he believes all the drivel he spouts about how BB works whilst denying the very basic facts as to why it isn’t working for affiliates! And, ultimately, is BLAMING affiliates for the problems within support (too many tickets), for delays in payments (wrong/incorrect ID)…or when they run out of reasons to blame us, they BLAME Solid Trust Pay…Who I’m going to phone direct tomorrow to ask about their dealings with Banners Broker, why they haven’t processed my payement, and ask STP if they are aware that Terry Stern has been slagging them off on the internet!!
One more quick example of Terry-speak before I depart:
‘Would you honestly release any funds to an idividual who hasn’t verified their identity to you? For tax purposes you need to know who you’re paying.’
Erm…Terry, wrong again. For tax purposes you need to know the identity of your EMPLOYEES. By your own explanation, I am self – employed. I run a ‘business’. I do not work for BBI. I buy PRODUCTS off you to help my business grow. You pay me something for something but I am definitively not work for BBI in any capacity that has me on your payroll. I have to sort out my own tax situation with regard to income. NOT BBI.
You DO NOT need to know anything more about me than my name and address in order to raise an invoice to me, or for me to raise one to you (Via STP). If the world of business really worked in the manner you claim, I would never be able to leave the house without my driver’s licence or passport! And I would be within my rights to ask to see the passport or drivers’ licence of the guy in the local shop who I intend to ‘release funds to’ in order to buy a pint of milk! After all, I want to verify that he actually works in that shop and has the authority to sell me milk!
And, you seem to be forgetting again, that those ‘funds’ are not yours. They’re MINE!! My E-wallet tells me so!
Terry, thank you for all this information!
I respect your attitude to these rude idiots.
Your energy is not wasted, though I think these people are not worth it at all.
Indian government is a bunch of thieves ,they even blocked payoneer ..lol .what u say about payonerr ..my brother finch ..i m from india
Terry is talking on another blog! http://www.onlinemlm.info More details and analysis of how the system is supposed to work. I think if we can get to the bottom of this, see where the money comes from, and how affiliates actually make a profit or loss, then all other questions will be answered.
D. Pressed, I am sorry that you have had a bad experience online, but trying to lump online advertising together as some big scam just shows your ignorance yet again. So Amazon.com is a scam? Ebay is a scam? Google is a scam? Yet again you are commenting and trying to enter into a world that you do not understand and have no business giving your uninformed opinion about.
The fact that you cannot understand how I have shown Terry up to be a liar is the exact reason you should have never gone near Banners Broker in the first place. You do not understand one little thing about online advertising.
The whole point of this blog post and subsequent comments is to put people off losing money like you did. By you coming in and treating this as some kind of gentlemen s debate and trying to cast people like Finch and me in a bad light you are just helping those scammers to rob someone else. Not sure what your motivation is, but you are coming across as nothing more than a trouble maker with a hidden agenda.
Stern’s answers to any questions are fluff and nonsense. He deliberately misquotes and casts aspersions and makes many, many assumptions about every single poster on here who has had the temerity to question him since he first stepped foot on this blog and other places like realscam.
The questions really aren’t difficult, but he seems unable to answer in simple terms that anyone can understand. Why he’s in a PR role I have no idea, for he is giving a masterclass in how not to do it. As a PR exercise, this has blown up in BB’s faces. It is a complete disaster. No other word for it but disaster.
For all you guys who have been able to ask the technical questions, thanks. I freely admit I don’t understand how this “thing” works, but I have seen enough of it to know when someone is being ripped off.
For D Pressed, I want to acknowledge the harsh words between us further up this blog, but want to apologise to you. You’ve found out the hard way about BB’s lack of integrity. Nothing I can say will make that better, for you or anyone else and I shudder to think how much worse this is going to be when it all comes tumbling down.
[sarcasm font]Roll on Tuesday when we all get a little bit more patronised when the great man returns [end sarcasm font]
Ditto Ditto, what a stupid thing to admit, I don’t know how this thing works but I know someone’s getting ripped off,,,,,,,.well I don’t know how it works an I’m getting paid so who’s stupid
@Terry
I have asked you three or four times now:
Why do your paying organisations need certified copies of the affiliates passports in order to pay them when PayPay does not.
You have given me all sorts of waffle and nonsense, but you HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION.
So let me ask you yet again Terry: You claim that your online paying organisations must have certified copies of affiliates passports in order to comply with international money laundering laws. PayPal do NOT need certified copies of affiliates passports in order to comply with international money laundering laws.
Without going into any other waffle or explanations, can you PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION?
I have openly stated that it is my opinion that BB will not use normal, reputable payment methods because it does not suit BB’s needs to use delaying tactics when pretending to make payments. It would be very, very difficult to make the ridiculous claims that you make about your payment organisations if you used PayPal or normal banks or cheques.
This is my opinion Terry, and nothing you have said in your several responses comes remotely close to answering this very simple question, so nothing you have said has come close to changing my mind about you and BB being a scam.
I have seen several comments here and elsewhere in resonse to my questions and your replies that affiliates would gladly pay the PayPal fees if this meant that they would actually get some real money into their real bank accounts.
And of course, your replies mislead people about fees because in fact the total cost of transferring money through your current systems exceeds any PayPal fees, but cost is really not relevant at all, becauseof course, any such fees would be peanuts in comparison to the humungous amounts of money BB is making for their affiliates, so affiliates will gladly pay PayPal or cheque fees if it means they really get their money.
If an affiliate was to say to you – yes, please, please, please pay me through PayPal and I will gladly pay any extra fees that might involve, will BB do that? If an affiliate said please, please do send me a cheque for my money and I will galdly absorbe any additional costs involved, will BB do that?
You know as well as I do that BB could and should do exactly that, but my opinion Terry is that BB will not do that because they have no intention of paying most of the people owed money by BB, so BB will not use any standard, normal, reputable payment methods where they cannot claim all the problems that are “delaying” the payments for so long.
Believe me, I would like to be proved wrong as your organisation has dragged in a family member of mine and I would like to see him at least get his money back, so please give me something to make me believe you are not a scam and you are not evil repeat criminals out to scam the people who can least afford it.
So Terry, what I am asking is very, very simple. Are you going to provide a proper answer or not?
@SwissSkyBlue
Terry is actually correct, under most countries money laundering regulations, business are required to confirm the identity of anyone they have a business relationship with. One way to do that is to receive/make a payment from a bank account/credit card in the name of the person in question. This works because the banks will have already checked the persons identity. This is how paypal validate your identity, remember the small deposit and you have to tell them the amount? BBI don’t bank deposits so they are required to check your identity by other means. I would be more worried if they were not doing that!
Just because BBI choose not to use paypal or direct payments to banks, does not confirm that the scheme is a scam. It may raise suspicion, but you will not be able to prove anything unless BBI come out and say we don’t use normal banking methods because we are doing something dodgy. However much you ask, they are not going to say that!!!!
What needs to be investigated is how the scheme actually works, where the money comes from and where it goes. Where is the “profit” that some affiliates claim to be making coming from. Can that profit be sustained over a long period. Rather than, BBI uses unconventional payment methods so the scheme itself must be dodgy.
@ Steve
“Ditto Ditto, what a stupid thing to admit, I don’t know how this thing works but I know someone’s getting ripped off,,,,,,,.well I don’t know how it works an I’m getting paid so who’s stupid”
The joy of this particular scheme (or whatever you wish to call it) is that nobody knows really how it works, even the PR guy who suddenly turned up recently can’t give a straight answer as to how it works!! Does it really matter that I’m happy to admit to being ignorant about the system? It’s not an issue for me, I’m not hung up on that fact – there are others posting on here in a similar position, that of being unable to fathom how BB works.
If you are getting paid (and I don’t know that you really are, I have to take your word on it) by a system that is looking more and more dodgy by the day, then that is a matter for you to think about. There are people out there who have invested a whole lot of money who, to date, have been unable to get any money out – just look further up the comments on this blog to see some names.
So really, I’m happy to sit here being stupid. I’m not getting money from something that is dodgy. Guess we’ll have to agree to differ – you think I’m stupid…. and???
Ditto, same ole same ole, I am getting paid cos if I wasn’t I’d be the first on here moaning, nobody has proved BB to be a scam, just people’s opinions, I’ve had delayed payments which they’ve sorted, guilty until proven innocent, if it was a few years ago you would have been drowning people for fun. I’d love to see some of the little hitlers on here running a business. BB have admitted they haven’t coped with the growth. Saga helpline must be inundated with all those pensioners dying from hunger and cold because they joined BB.
GENERALISATIONS:
AJ says: January 19, 2013 at 1:16 am
Terry, thank you for all this information!
I respect your attitude to these rude idiots.
Your energy is not wasted, though I think these people are not worth it at all.
AJ, I disagree with you that ‘these people’ are all rude idiots. Some are rude idiots, some are idiots, some are rude but not idiots, some are polite idiots, some are polite and not idiots.
Talking BB? Talking BS imo! And I can say that as a retort, because you’ve called me an idiot.
Nick: Read my recent posts again if you get time please. I would put you in the category of ‘rude but not an idiot’. In fact, I agree entirely with you that you did some excellent work in your discussion with Terry. You got him on the ropes and are clearly an intelligent, articulate, knowledegable chap. Conversely though, he also presented a load of industry jargon as ‘facts’ based on the similarly confusing (to me) logic as you. My point is that if two self-proclaimed experts (you and Terry) can’t agree about anything, it would be irrational of me to decide that you alone have proven to me that Terry is lying about those matters which I don’t understand!
I openly admitted that I do not understand online advertising. My opinion IS informed though, because YOU have helped to inform me, FINCH has helped to inform me, many others have informed me and I appreciate that aspect of your work in bringing BB to book.
However, the accusation that I cannot reach an informed opinion without a degree (Terry) or working in advertising (you), is patently ridiculous. If that were the case ‘due diligence; would require one or the other of his or your specific qualifactions/experinence! As such, BB wouldn’t have 300,000 affliates. they’d have about 3 or 30 or 300…whatever…it’s nonsense you try and discredit my informed opinions for the reasons you and he state.
I can’t argue against the specifics, of networks because you are the disagreeing experts; but I can make rational arguments about clear contradictions or illogical conceits. Your reply to me proves that you are also guilty of making absurd accusations based on groundless GENERALISATIONS.
YOU SAY:
D. Pressed, I am sorry that you have had a bad experience online.
Thank you for your acknowledgment of my bad experience Nick. Appreciated. With respect though, had you read the thread properly instead of jumping in and out aggressively towards Terry and me, you’d have already known that I’m a VICTIM of BB and not be inclined to lump me into a catagory comprising total ignorance.
My criticism of online marketing was in relation to the fact that it does enable people to behave towards each other in a way they NEVER would offline….e.g. Madoff’s childish rant.
Imagine me and Madoff sat in an office, face to face; talking about BB…. ‘Holy fuck. D.Pressed just did a poo in the office! D.Pressed, change your name to gibberish!’
I trust you will agree that Madoff would be quickly removed to a secure psychiatric unit!
My criticism of you Nick, is ALL to do with you manner, not your expertise. And that it does disconnect logic from emotion such that it is VERY difficult to know who is honest and credible and who isn’t when a debate turns into a slanging match.
YOU SAY:
…..but trying to lump online advertising together as some big scam just shows your ignorance yet again. So Amazon.com is a scam? Ebay is a scam? Google is a scam? Yet again you are commenting and trying to enter into a world that you do not understand and have no business giving your uninformed opinion about.’
This is where you fail to convince me that your expertise in the advertising business (which I don’t deny), is not seriously undermined by youe ludicrous generalistions which lead to ludicrous accusations.
I did not state or imply that ALL online advertising is some big scam. Of course Amazon is legit., Ebay is legit., Google is legit…..I think the vast majority is legit. You’ve made an irrational connection between legitimacy and behaviour.
I have had many dealings with Amazon and Ebay. At no point, ever, has anyone been rude, aggressive, or abusive, even when they were right and I was wrong!. I’ve had many a conversation with online traders over the phone. Never has anyone answered the phone in this manner:
‘Hello, this is XYZ customer services. And who the fuck are you?’
🙂
Yes, it’s funny because it’s SO ridiculously unprofessional and absurd. And that, Nick, is my point. You genuinely want to help stop more people joining BB. You have a significant expertise in the industry relevant to the concerns of all BB naysayers. I want to believe every word you say about the technicalities. They may well be 100% accurate. BUT your EMOTIONAL manner IS important with regard to the effect it has on the RATIONAL case you present to me and those who may be thinking of chucking money into BB.
Finch has stated that he is fascinated by the psychology of people who buy into schemes like BB without knowing anything about the business. The problem is that if a businessman isn’t likeable as well as credible, it actually encoourages people to ignore their advice. EVEN IF THEY ARE COMPLETELY HONEST AND FACTUALLY ACCURATE.
BB use charm tactics to seduce potential investors in the real world. That is shrewd.It’s how conmen traditionally get money out of the ignorant, the gullible and the foolish. Eye contact, body language count for a lot. and conmen know every trick in the book.
There is none of that on the net. So then it comes down to interpreting credibility/plausibility via the written manner of the person.
You use aggressive tactics…like a pushy double glazing seller. You batter people into submission. At that point it matters less what you’ve said factually about your business, or your expertise because I wouldn’t want to do business with you! All I can see is the hard sell, or, on the internet; the swear words. Would YOU believe everything someone said about their industry if they spoke to you like that while trying to convince you?!
Ultimately, the total lack of context within which you use swear words and the way you extrapolate my specific criticisms of specific things/behaviour into gross generalisations in order to discredit me; ends up backfiring.
And CRUCIALLY it could mean MORE people join up to BB via this thread ‘cos they feel sorry for poor Terry!…not that they should, but it’s human nature to place style above substance when deciding who to believe.
I’m satisfied with the way I have conducted myself in this recent discussion. I’ve done as much to outwit Terry as anyone. The same is true of Steven Howard and a few others whose attitude has been respectful and balanced throughout. My eventual anger towards Terry was controlled, but justified when he manipulated a typo. into an accusation of lying. At that point I KNEW (without needing to understand how the advertising business works), that he had lost the debate. And I KNEW that because he was no longer able to counter my logical statements/question with logical replies! 🙂
And I KNEW he was talking utter rubbish when he suggested that affilates who buy the ad/pub combo are neither advertisers nor publishers!…. We are renters and buyers….i.e. our ‘business’ has outgoings; but no income. And to think this man has a degree in finance. (sarcasm alert! 😉 )
Affliates spend money with BB, we ‘earn’ NOTHING from anyone! We get paid ONLY from a percentage of the affiliate money that BBI are prepared to redistribute in order to main the illusion of earnings; as and when enough new affilaites put new money into the system.
And this,I believe, is the bottom line.
@steve
Why are you here posting comments on this blog then? You’re obviously happy with the scheme. You’re making money. You don’t care how the money is made as long as it’s trickling in to your bank. You’re obviously up to speed with the tax implications etc and everything in your garden is rosy.
Your comment about the Saga helpline however is in remarkably poor taste and is a totally unsubstantiated premise. Feel free to back that one up with evidence by all means.
I’m assuming that the “if it was a few years ago you would have been drowning people for fun” statement is a general you, and will include everyone else on here who doesn’t support your viewpoint. If it’s directed at me, then that’s fine, there is really no need to respond any further. Always a pleasure to meet a gentleman who represents BB so well. Take care.
Ditto, you dont seem to realise your the one making all the accusations when nothing has been proved, hope you can climb out of you own arse real soon. Your the ones saying about all these pensioners that have been wronged, where the hell are they , like Mr Stern said your a bunch of nit picking tossers, you come on here with you paragraphs of cut and paste crap and spout on what a scam it is and then admit you don’t understand it, you don’t seem to care that you might be ruining a completely viable business opportunity, you really must be whiter than white with your vitriolic pass judgement manner. I came on here and all is said is I joined, bought panels and made money, you on the other hand read everybody else’s crap and just comment on it with none of your own research. What a Norris you probably are.
@steve
Changed my name because it was confusing me, never mind everyone else! Have you actually made money? By made money I mean taken out more than you have put in? If not then you may be counting your chickens!
@Steve
When people resort to using foul language and insulting people, it generally means they have lost an argument.
I understand BB enough to know it’s a scam, India closed, world tour cancelled, payments late, infighting, accusations, it’s only going to get worse, keep watching.
As for ruining BB, thats why Terry stuck his nose in, to try and rescue BB, next thing you know he will have been sacked for telling lies or some such thing.
Then there’s the accusation that Driscoll took 4million dollars, jeesh, what moron thought that one up ?
The end is coming Steve and you’ve lost your dosh. Sorry.
Steve, yes I’ve actually made money, banked it and spent it, ill swear on my life, the bible, come to my house whatever you want, it’s very frustrating all this cos I can’t prove it to you. I could post links on here but people then accuse you of doctoring stuff.
Seven, I haven’t lost dosh, Ian Driscoll is doing opportunity meetings this week, people have been saying its closing 4 months after it opened, India isn’t closed, that’s why it’s frustrating, people like you coming out with utter crap
Hi Ditto Ditto.
Noted and appreciate your comments/apology above. I only post on here and only under this name, but I do read Realscam because they cover more of the background research into the company, Chris Smith etc.
I’ve just been on there to see the latest and found to my surprise that someone called ‘Ash Ken’ claims to feel sorry for me on the basis that I have been a supporter of BB on this blog; and that it was only when I expressed shock and outrage at the $4m fraud that the scales fell from my eyes!! This is an utter falsehood and if I was as important to the deabte as Finch I’d demand a retraction!! It’s a good job I’m boring, delusional and full of shit!! Thanks to Finch and Nick I’ve learned to live with being misrepresented, otherwise there would be trouble between me and Kenneth Ash!! 😉
Nontheless, Ash Ken has made the same foolish error of logic that some people on here have made. That is, they assume, that because I sometimes criticise the logic, tactics or behaviour of e.g. Finch, Nick, yourself and a few others, that therefore I support BB or still cling onto the hope that I’ve not been diddled out of my hard earned by a bunch of scammers.
The two positions are NOT mutually inclusive. In order to KNOW I’ve been ripped off by BB….and I (almost) knew that from day one on this messageboard as you’re aware; I needed to gather information that satisfied my belief that BB is and never was, what it claims to be.
Unfortunately, whenever I have tried to put BB into the context of online marketing generally (which is a legitimate thing to do seeing as I freely admit to being no expert), then I can only make rational decisions based on the responses I read to my own posts and others.
To put it simply, I have never been a ‘Shill’ for BB, but nor am I a ‘Shill’ for Finch, or Nick, or anyone who treats me like an idiot OR makes factually incorrect assumptions as to my motivations or beliefs based on monstrous generalisations. Usually by picking the bits out of my posts which they twist into an attack on my integrity and intelligence. The fact they do this indicates to me that they are driven as much by ego as intellect and rational debate. This sort of thing hinders the quest for truth and transparency amongst laymen who might be thinking of following the likes of me into BB, regardless of their ‘industry’ expertise personal legitimate, lawful business interests.
Ash Ken has done the same. Clearly an intellligent man, but if he really had read my posts rather than picking out bits of negativity that suit his agenda, he would KNOW that my position is this:
I respect Finch and Nick’s knowledge of their business/industry. They have helped me through their technical knowledge to recognise that BB’s business model is a facade, a farce.
Although I still don’t understand how BB works, I do understand how it doesn’t work! And I am now utterly convinced that I was grossly mislead from the beginning by BB’s presentation. Which WAS done by the man who T.Stern casually mentioned had done a runner with $4m, while I can’t even get $400 out of the system!!
I believe, at times, some of the people with REAL knowledge and facts on here and on realscam, do not help their case (which is also my case), by behaving in an undignified manner. I was interested to note on Realscam that Finch himself stated exactly the same thing I did here. That Terry Stern deserved to be treated with respect for engaging with forums which are almost exclusively ‘naysayers’ to one degree or another. The implication, is that Finch actually agrees with me that childish, abusive, irrational behaviour undermines US, not BB….
BB want to see us who hate BB infighting, being petty, childish, irrational. It enables them to discredit the source of TRUTH and that’s as bad as discredit the truth per se.
I have NEVER said a good word about my BB experience on here. I started off feeling I’d been conned, I now KNOW I’ve been conned!! But by picking out bits and pieces of general critique/criticism of some aspects of the internet as a market place and the techniques used, people like Ash Ken ludicrously conclude that I must therfore be supporting BB vicariously.
This is the nature of generalisations, biases, intransigence, the inability to take criticism. I admit I’ve made some errors of fact and judgment in some of my posts, loads of typos., waffled on…but the problem with this medium is that A) It takes time to explain things as I mean them and understand them at that time and context B) When I do that, others can’t be bothered to read the WHOLE point of view in a coherent way, and pick the bits out to suit their agenda anyway!
However, I’m satisfied that it’s their problem, not mine.
I’ve looked at the smaller picture and the bigger picture. I recognise the great good that Finch and Realscam have done to bring this discussion to the point whereby BB HAD to take notice and HAD to try and defend themselves HERE. The expertise of people within the industry, such has Nick, has also helped draw attention to the impossible logic of BB’s supposed business/affiliate model. BUT, in the end, I could only ever balance their expert views but occasionally rude, dismissive, arrogant manner; against that of a GENUINE BB INSIDER…
Mr Stern duly arrived and I was able to consider his evidence, together with everything else I’ve learned, and prove beyond reasonable doubt that my concerns, my reasons to feel uncomfortable about being in BB, my reasons for Googling this website/blog; have been fully justified and vindicated.
I only wish I could have convinced my former friend before Christmas that it IS too good to be true. My biggest mistake though, was in failing to talk us both out of it a year or so ago; but he’s an optimist…and I’m not…..Yet….
There was a roomful of people there, the atmosphere was convivial, the presentation seductive…and a very CHARMING man called Ian Driscoll was there to tell us all, with utmost sincerity, that ‘Banners Broker changes lives’.
At least that’s one promise I can’t accuse him or BB of not keeping!!
Well D.Pressed, why don’t you go and have it out with Ian face to face. On th 17th of jan he’s doing the opportunity meeting at the hickstead hotel, jobs lane, West Sussex, go and see the man face instead of reeling out paragraph after paragraph of utter drivel, grow a backbone.
You’re another one Steve… Irrational, crude, insulting etc.
At the moment all I can do is discuss the situation on the internet. When Finch was first offered the chance to go to Canada, I suggested that he ought to jump on the next plane. However, that was partly because he generated this entire debate and he had an invitation from the top.
I now accept that it wasn’t reasonable to expect him to go immediately, although given the extent to which he has called BB a Ponzi from the beginning I felt that saying he couldn’t go for two months was a bit lame….a lot of people can get drawn into a ponzi in two months… I know that touched a raw nerve with Finch in that regard; because I know he was genuinely surprised to be invited out there and of course it’s a scary thought….what if he went and discovered he was wrong? Or right?! Blogging is one thing, but confronting them face to face is another matter, as you suggest. So he lashed out at me like a rabid dog! But that’s all forgiven now, because we’ve had Terry Stern here in the interim. 🙂
The fact is, that people like ME have helped Finch’s blog leapfrog that of the official BB website via our posts, both short and long, and we were able to get the genuine PR man from BB to address this forum. At this stage, that is all any of us could do because BB have cancelled all public events.
Coming back to your point though, A mammal grows a backbone via evolution! I CANNOT confront anyone face to face yet, but I will, I can assure you. My confrontation with Driscoll will not however involve me driving a near 1000 mile round journey.
If he brings his ‘opportunities’ nearer to home, then of course I’m not scared to go to wherever he is and disrupt his session with some serious questions. That, however, is a side issue to me ‘off topic’ to some extent. My gripe is with BB because they are the organisation I’m affilated to. So although I’ve no problem with giving Driscoll a piece of my mind (and will), that confrontation is not my ‘job’. The people I REALLY want to confront will be at the next BB tour meeting…if and when that takes place. Those meetings are the lifeblood of the organisation and I absolutely WILL go and do what I can, how I can, to stick THEIR unevolved backbones up their posturing backsides….metaphorically speaking! 😉
What irritates me though as much as anything is people like you Steve. You haven’t even read my ‘paragraphs’….you’ve read the last few lines….YET AGAIN someone has formed an opinion based on an irrational conceit…. I didn’t even know about Driscoll’s event until you mentioned it. And even if it was taking place next door to my house I couldn’t do anything about it until then.
And finally….In order for me to go to Driscoll’s event on 17th JANUARY I would have to invent a workable time travel machine! 😉
I presume it’s a typo. though Steve…these things happen, so I’ll let you off; although they don’t normally occur in such a brief post as yours. Clearly you were in a tremendous hurry to have a dig at me , that you got you one attempt at stating a fact, wrong!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you were a You Tube clip I’d recorded, I’d be entitled to call it ‘Steve’s epic date FAIL’. Oh dear…this sarcasm thing si contagious, but it’s clea that some people aren’t able to communicate in any way that makes sense, so we’re only left with the lowest form of wit with which to fend off the words that are teetering on my fingertips, but which I will refrain from using because they might be inferred by others as evidence that I have lost the ‘debate’ with Steve.
Perhaps, while you go away and think about the few bits of this post that you can be bothered to, or are capable of ingesting logically; you can find out the correct date down south.
There may be one amongst us who lives nearby who would like to pop along to that event?
Thank you 🙂
Actually Steve, it’s people like you who keep me here now. 🙂
My money’s gone down the swanny at BB…all I’ve got left to look forward to in that regard is vengeance (as described above) 😉
I’ve not got any further reason as such to keep posting on here, but it’s become a highly stimulating and amusing hobby to joust linguistically in this virtual arena. 🙂
I’m getting my money’s worth of lost BB investment via the opportunity you afford me to bamboozle you and your ilk with erudite logic and humour; bar the odd typo. which slips through my virtual visor!
The way things are going, I’ll be able to close my BB account feeling delighted that I’ve had lots of fun on here, learned a great deal about internet ‘opportunities’ AND still have the opportunity available to me to tell it how it is to the shills and the ponces offline too! 🙂
I’ve also come to terms with losing my ‘friend’. Why on earth would someone as intelligent and rational and modest as me, need to be friends with someone who not only can’t see the elephant in the room, he can’t even see that the walls of the room are caving in?
What a twat!! OOPS. I swore…but it’s an offline related use of the ‘t’ word, and therefore justifiable imo. 😉
I no longer feel sorry for him. Or myself. And it’s partly thanks to you Steve for presenting yourself in the manner of an open goal with the ball at MY feet. I’m not going to miss from there…. ONE NIL!!! 🙂
Now then…who’s next to have a pop at me? To quote that legendary Norwich City Director and ex TV cook Delia Smith in one of her more sobre moments: COME ON!!….LET’S BE ‘AVIN’ YA!!
🙂
Clickbooth & Hydra hahaha oh haha oh hahahahaha wow that is hilarious.
Terry you were doing slightly ok but that exchange with Nick just ruined all your hard work.
D.Pressed I’m sorry pal but your long winded waffle is painfully boring to sift through keep it short and sweet please. (No offense)
One thing I have always wondered is they were stuck with one ad network for such a long time well in excess of said profit/turnover and suddenly their fairly tale blind network has teamed up with Joe Bloggs from Timbuk-fucking-tu.
Words are not proof Terry and neither telling us to verify your claims. (don’t fucken say google it) There is nothing on the net of verifiable evidence except a bunch of thick affiliates saying “Look I got Paid” and the usual blind blah blah blah.
I too look forward to Finch addressing your comments about CPA networks being ad serving platforms ROFL!
Who knows maybe bannurz brokhurz will become one LOL then I can split the profit of your CPA campaigns for doing fuck all.
DJ: Your posts are short and sour. Mine are long and sweet.
Apart from this one 😉
Ok D.pressed I completely agree with you. (Light reassuring pat on the back)
[end sarcasm]
Feel free to continue your runny verbal SHARTS for sentences.
@D Pressed: Maybe you should start your own blog, not to get you off here, but for your own satisfaction of being able to say what you want, as clearly as you want. You’ve certainly got a talent that is wasted here. Going over to look at realscam to see what crap’s been written there as well.
Why set up my own blog when I’ve got this ‘panel’ available to me that is right at the top of the Google search?
Finch has, via this thread, set up ‘Bloggers Broker’. Like Raj Dixit, he’s looking to feed his family, but he also wants (out of the goodness of his heart) to help ‘the little guy’. People like me, who can blog for England, but are never given a break because we don’t have access to a major corporate blogging network which attracts significant traffic. So most bloggers spend their lives blogging to themselves. That’s sad. Instead, I’m able to rent blogging space free of charge here and use the traffic that Finch generates to boost my personal blogging gratification rewards. Think of it as being like Zeek Rewards, but without the Zeek bit. 😉
Therefore, I’m a Finch ‘affiliate blogger’ looking to expand my rapidly growing blogging business by completing as many panels as I can in the fastest possible time, merely by clicking keys on my keyboard for a few minutes a day. 🙂
I earn commission (in the form of ‘entertainment’ and ‘amusement’) from those who reply to my panels. You are my ‘downline’. Without you providing fresh sarcasm and insults for me to feed off, my ‘Single Handed Ariticulation Resourse Transponder Service’ (or SHARTS, as we call them in my industry; about which you know nothing by the way!), my business would not be able to survive.
Hence, just when I thought we had an understanding Ditto Ditto, it appears you still feel the need to insult me:
‘Going over to look at realscam to see what crap’s been written there as well.’
Your forum name is very apt.
1. The same as stated above or before.
2. A duplicate; a copy.
3. A pair of small marks ( ” ) used to indicated that the word, phrase, or figure given above is to be repeated….and repeated and repeated.
It equates to another idiom: ‘same old same old’. 🙂
Definition:
‘used to say that a situation or someone’s behaviour remains the same, especially when it is boring or annoying.’
You may find me boring and annoying, but it would be based on the false premise that my behaviour remains the same. It doesn’t. It’s actually changing and evolving, based on the reality that you have a very short attention span. Your behaviour DOES remain the same, but in a way, that’s endearing rather than boring to me. Ditto Ditto wouldn’t be Ditto Ditto without the Ditto and the Ditto. 🙂
I’ll be taking my blog offline when I get the chance to go to a BB public meeting. If one ever takes place again. Apparently Lorenzo and his pal David want to meet with affilaites to help us expand our ‘businesses’. 🙂
However, in the meantime, I would like to thank you, and DJ and Steve, and everyone who replies to my affilaite blog; for helping my ‘Bloggers’ Broker’ business to thrive. 🙂
@D Pressed
Serious rolling on floor laughing moment here: Bloggers Broker indeed 😀
DD
Well D.Pressed I gotta hand it to you mate, obviously SHARTS was shit farts however your wit continues to amaze me as for the bloggers broker comment that was rather funny, have you ever considered stand up?
This article (although a damn good one) is now just a piss take and everyone knows it but hey I’m game for a few laughs there isn’t anything new in terms of BB, Terry went down in a ball of flames and I don’t imagine Chris “zulu warrior” Smith will be coming on here to tell us about his latest partnership with the Sunday World brokering ad space in the classifieds section. 🙂
Finch you got the Q + A ready yet?
Hi Guys
A lot of articles and stuff about BB which I’m looking at with an open mind as I have been in BB for some 11 weeks now.
Finch, David Hooker will be more than happy to fly you to Canada head office to show you the programme of BB – would you do this and then write back on your findings?
Regards
Jay
My name is Chris Smith, the man you’ve all been wanting to hear from.
After the disgraceful way you spoke to Terry, the PR officer for BB, I have decided to clear up some misconceptions you hold.
This article and others are having a detrimental effect on our business, therefore I have decided to explain how we generate money.
The algorithm I invented works like this, please note these are imaginary figures.
You purchase $100 worth of ads from BB at a price well below the normal market value, we achieve this low cost as our purchasing power, with our huge number of affiliates is so huge (everyone knows that a multinational company with huge purchasing power can purchase stock at a much lower price than a small independent retailer, this is how it works in this business as well).
We then are able to sell your ad space to the open market at normal rates, but then the algorithm kicks in, selling, repurchasing, reselling over the course of the next few days/weeks, generating a few cents or dollars during each cycle per ad space.
When your panel matures, your traffic will have been purchased,sold, repurchased then resold multiple times, each time the purchase cycle starts there is more money available to purchase more ad space hence increasing your profit.
By the time the algorithm cycle has finished, not only has your money doubled, but we have also generated a small profit for ourselves. Multiply this by 280,000 affiliates and we make large profits. All without us borrowing money from banks.
Obviously this is a simple explanation of a very complicated algorithm, but it works.
Any questions ?
Chris
When did you graduate from Ryerson University Chris?
Chris – Many, many questions…
1. Specifically, which ad networks are you purchasing from at this bulk discount rate?
2. “We then are able to sell your ad space to the open market at normal rates, but then the algorithm kicks in, selling, repurchasing, reselling over the course of the next few days/weeks, generating a few cents or dollars during each cycle per ad space.”
I’m lost. What does this mean? Can you break it in to a step-by-step process?
3. If ‘buying in bulk’ is what gives you a competitive advantage, what makes you think a venture capitalist or bank funded company can’t do the same thing?
4. How are you going to stay competitive when a business backed by venture capitalists or investment banks doesn’t need to guarantee a ‘double your money’ return to its affiliates?
5. How did your business model work when you didn’t have 280,000 affiliates? You’ve stated that you rely on leverage through the volume of affiliates. How did this work as a small company?
LOL….How did I know that would be the first question……
Chris, I would appreciate if you answered my question first. I think that Finch’s questions will require a much more indepth answer whereas mine is simply four digits. No offence Finch. Love the blog.
Any real proof this is the “Chris Smith” that claims to be “the man we have been wanting to hear from” ?
I assume if he can answer the college question that would help prove it to some degree.
Just the year will do Chris. I would like to know more about the man behind the company i put my hard earned dollars into. It would help prove your legitmacy too. Its win-win.
Mr Smith, at what point did you decide that Banners Broker was no longer a “straightline cycler doubler”, but actually an advertising broker, whose goal it was to rid the world of poverty?
Why have you always claimed to be a “maths genius with a masters degree” when your own PR man says you only have an undergraduate one?
Oh, and where are the banners?
http://www.technickeldesigns.com/2012/11/13/is-go-fun-places-scam/
Can you check on this one. It seems to have the same biz model & payouts…
I think you found a niche. I see you all over the Money Games forums.
Good job. Saving people from inevitable hardship
@Chris
“when your panel matures, your traffic will have been purchased,sold, repurchased then resold multiple times, each time the purchase cycle starts there is more money available to purchase more ad space hence increasing your profit.”
Who is purchasing the traffic? The affiliates by any chance? For the scheme not to be ponzi like, there has to be someone other that the affiliates purchasing the traffic. Who are those people? Give us some proof that BBI is actually purchasing the traffic from an external network, and selling it back at a profit to someone who is not an affiliate!
If all the purchases of the traffic are affiliates, then it is impossible that the affiliates as a whole will make a profit. They are just passing cash around between themseleves. i.e. its a ponzi scheme.
At the moment I am not willing to disclose personal information that may allow people to discover my home address, I still have kids at home and don’t want people or reporters or TV crews turning up at my front door. Once I have satisfied your curiosity as to how the system works I will reconsider your requests for information regarding my education.
Mr Stern should not have disclosed any information like this, he has been dismissed and will not be answering any questions on this forum.
Finch, I will answer your questions.
1) We have non disclosure agreements in place with a number of ad networks, what I can say is that we use some of the major players. We will be using more ad networks as our company grows.
2) For clarity’s sake, these are hypothetical figures. We buy ad space for 90c, normally this would cost us $1, but our purchasing power gives us a discount, we resell this for you @ $1.10, which gives us a 20c profit, this is reinvested to buy more ad space, only this time we can buy extra ad space (we use 4.5 * 20c), resell this, repurchase, resell, the cycle completes until we double your money and have a profit for ourselves.
3) Banks charge a % on loans, we have no loans.
4) We are competitive because of the way the algorithm works, we have a self generating system that gives the general public a way to earn an income most could only have dreamed of. The banks are responsible for the world wide recession, we don’t want to allow them to benefit from our system.
5) My own personal money started this venture.
@chris
I think you just answered my question “we resell this for you @ $1.10”
So a simple question, using your algorithm, is it possible for every single affiliate to make a profit?
@chris. How can you prove that you are the real CS, posting here? Also, I will be contacting the CEOs of Yesup and Openx, to confirm a significant business relationship with you. This simple query should not violate any normal NDA. Are there others you’d like me to contact?
Your profit model makes no sense. Impressions are sold using a bidding algorithm in every ad network, period. Nobody is going to buy those ad impressions from you at such a markup, when they could buy from the ad network directly. These large ad networks likewise would never hand off that margin to you. You bring zero added value to this and somehow can generate over $150m in yearly profit?
@chuck
Unless he sells them to affiliates who have no idea what they are buying!
Sorry ‘Chris’, until you can prove who you are you have no credibility whatsoever.
The fact you can’t even answer a simple college question speaks volumes. I regret the day I ever got involved in this mess.
Poor Terry. I hope he’s ok.
What I’d love to ask Chris and his buddy Raj and the various human sludge, like Simon Stephys/Mark Stokes, is how to can you look your children in the eyes when you know they will eventaully grow up and come to the realisation that Daddy is a piece of shit low-life scammer that has spent their life robbing money off people who can least afford it and left nothing but pain and loss in their wake.
How do you do that Chris?
Thanks in advance bro.
Cuddles!
Chuck,
I can’t prove who I am, the same as you can’t, I am simply trying to bring things out in the open.
Contact whom you wish, our NDA’s still stand and explicitly state that neither party will disclose to outsiders whom we are partnered with. At best you will get a denial or a statement saying they do not release information like that. Anything else and I’ll get our legal team on to it.
I think you missed the part where I said “hypothetical” figures, OBVIOUSLY we’re not buying ad space at one dollar a shot, I gave figures like that in order for the lay person to grasp how the system works. The true figures are in cents or part thereof.
Thank you for confirming that an algorith is involved.
BBinsider,
Obviously I can prove who I am, but will not at this stage, for obvious reasons.
I’m confident you will receive your payout on the 31st of the month.
@Chris Smith
“After the disgraceful way you spoke to Terry, the PR officer for BB, I have decided to clear up some misconceptions you hold.
This article and others are having a detrimental effect on our business, therefore I have decided to explain how we generate money.”
Which misconceptions do we hold?
@Chris Smith — if yours is a legitimate business, why did you dress it up to look like a ponzi?
Chris, sure you can prove you are not some ‘chris smith’ imposter — just send an email to Finch from your bannersbroker domain; he can validate the headers and then tell us that the $150M man is actually speaking to us here…simple.
I understand your ‘hypothetical’ comment but I hope you also realize that your purported business model of buying advertising impressions at a discount, reselling them to your affiliates who in turn resell them again to eager purchasers has zero credibility to anyone who knows anything about how this stuff really works.
Here’s the death knell on your assertion: You said you started this with your own money. Whatever profit you made you could have been rolling back into the business and enjoying the geometric progression of income, all by yourself. No need to advertise this program as the world’s first straightline doubler cycler, as Kul did in order to line up thousands of early investors pre-launch in late summer 2010.
Quote: Chuck,
I can’t prove who I am, the same as you can’t, I am simply trying to bring things out in the open.
BBinsider,
Obviously I can prove who I am, but will not at this stage, for obvious reasons.
(the mind boggles)
I think if all is well and above board then there is nothing to fear seems the best course of action would be to go for BBB accreditation media exposure with major traffic networks some GOOD PR that shows everyone BB works with the right kinds of agencies respected all over the world and shine some light on this blind network, the theoretical process in itself doesn’t really fill us with confidence.
Currently it seems like the ad platform is…… Finches blog….
@Chris
Why did you not answer my question? It’s very simple and only requires a single word answer, either yes or no. So I’ll ask it again
Using your algorithm, is it possible for every single affiliate to make a profit?
rofl so a CEO of a company is condfident that … “the pay out will be out on the 31st of the month” … before it was 11 then oh gee it will be on the 18 and now this LOL… ah i see it now you didn’t mention wich month ROFL do you believe you’r own BS ?? …. i am quiet confident even if i am an BB affiliate this is a scam … whatever you say Chris …if these articles blogs are having a detrimental effect on your business say’s enough doesn’t it … if i start a blog and tell people about how shitty the mercedes is i bought and they have fake engines in it 🙂 im am 100% sure they wont sell 1 less due to my comment’s …. and you BB guru’s keep claiming you don’t need recruitment so what is the problem then ??? thats the point i think its hurting recruitment and there goe’s you so called business model les recruit’s payment problems and delays and time to tackle the negative blogs ….
oh yes forgot to say you are a little dictator with your TOS hounting down people who might dare to speak negative about your business you try to keep them silent …. so every one thinks its all great at BB
kind regards
brenie
Can someone please explain why yellow panels after more than one month still only earn 16$ out of 20$, instead of the usual 20 days completion time for yellow. Those yellow panels are way over time ….
Maybe Chris Smith’s panel algorithm has some flaws after all or they are not making enough money in time to payout affiliates.
But the algorithm to charge the traffic packs and monthly subscription seems to work very good these days, eating from the ewallet and not feeding it.
@BannersBS
Not sure anyone here can explain (but I’m sure someone will). I understand the usual line is that you speak to your upline in first instance. Have you tried that?
DD
Question Chris:
Why did you first call yourself Terry, then call yourself Chris and pretend to fire yourself? And then continue with the same rubbish you went on with before?
Chris you will need to confirm that you are THE Chris Smith from BB before we start debating with you otherwise another CEO will come on and says that you are not the real deal and/or you have been fired a’la Terry. Nice hire there by the way. Never heard of a company that takes in outsider money that can’t or won’t confirm the identity of their CEO. Ridiculous to say the least.
Strange – the city of Toronto, Canada became a red flag? This guy “Chris Smith” aint of Toronto. Its a fuckin bb-fan.
@andreasheinz – I think you may well be spot on there 😉
“Chris, sure you can prove you are not some ‘chris smith’ imposter — just send an email to Finch from your bannersbroker domain; he can validate the headers and then tell us that the $150M man is actually speaking to us here…simple.”
Yes, do it Chris before we debate
I also think that Terry and Chris speaking here are the same person, and this person probably is a BB fan
@ BannersBS
“But the algorithm to charge the traffic packs and monthly subscription seems to work very good these days, eating from the ewallet and not feeding it.”
Thats the strategy, I guess. And thus terminate the panels.
Not all the panels, maybe “just” 90-95%.
It probably is Chris, or someone from within BB. But there is no way he will confirm his identity. That way, if he lets something slip, he can say later that it was not him. Just like Terry, who was speaking on the half of BB. His arguments did not stand up, so what he said became unauthorised.
I apologise in advance if I am not right, but…..like other people here, I have great doubts about the identity of the people who came here purporting to be first Terry Stern, and second Chris Smith.
The first was slightly more believable, but the second….nah, just did not ring true. Did not buy him as the mysterious Mr Smith, sorry. Why would the CEO of an (alledgedly) multi million $ company go to a blog to debate with people? Surely amongst all the staff they say they have, they have a media and communications department who would put out a proper story to correct any “misconceptions”?
I doubt very much that Finch will be going anywhere to see BB in action, do you? Not even Manchester!
@Della Cafe
Something Manchester, Febuary 2013… Tokio, May 2014
or nothing.
Rather Manchester. Yup
Chris, i don’t believe for a second that you alone have invented an “Revolutionary Algorithm” which no one has thought off before. I’m sure if this algorithm did exist, think tanks at google would of picked it up. Not some washed up “Math Genius” who probably has no idea weather to use an integral or a differential to solve the area under a curve.
I love this blog. I am very thankful to all of you who have provided information to expose the criminals behind Bannersbroker. I would just like the add the following for whatever it is worth:
Legitimate businesses leave paper trails of creditors, transactions with suppliers, etc. It does not take a marketing expert to expose the criminal intent of Bannersbroker. No company could ever survive by offering a product that no one can verify exists. Bannersbroker preys on the weekend minded who are desperate in a sluggish economy to earn more money. People blindly put their money in to Bannersbroker false hopes generated by people paid to promote profits that don’t exist or people so stupid they actually believe they are making money. Regardless of where the false propaganda originates, it is what it is.
I challenge the criminals Bannersbroker to name one legitimate business in this world that publicly posts on their website that any notice by a customer and or member to close their accounts will result in all profits lost and any liquidation requests to be forfeited? Really?
Name any legitimate business in the world that charges their customers to call them for customer support?
Name any legitimate business in the world that earns revenues enough to pay out over $150m annually that can’t afford their own servers? Bannersbroker publishes their websites with cheap hosted service from third party providers. No organization maintaining financial information of millions of customers would ever trust said information to third party providers.
The most humorous thing I read on this post was the alleged Chris Smith claiming that he did not want to give out his home address or where he went to college because he does not want reporters showing up to his house bothering his family. If in fact he was running a business that was generating hundreds of millions of dollars in sales every year, we would not have to ask where he went to school, where he lives, etc. It would be public knowledge. Google any CEO in the world of a business with sales over 150m a year and see if you can’t find out just about everything you would ever want to know about their officers. If you are in debt collection and or legal services, there are numerous ways to verify someones background. I have done exhaustive asset searches on Chris Smith and some other so called officers of Bannersbroker. I have found nothing but rubbish that would lead anyone to realize that their names are as phony as their business.
In conclusion, I am sure that Bannersbroker has paid out money to some of their members over the course of their existence or they would not have survived this long, but I also sure that when the criminals who run Bannersbroker run for the hills, there will be people all over the world out millions of dollars who never seen a fraction of what they put in to the scam ever returned to them. Hopefully, many of these people are like me and sincerely appreciate that their are pictures of these idiots out on the internet.
hahaha …. warning if you try your BB predaid card to check if deposit has been made and no funds are on it Vector will still charge you 2,5$ per try ….
kind regards
brenie
Yes, that Vector is a first class card processing company. LMAO.
Would I be right in saying Vector wouldn’t even advertise with BB?!
Great post Bill Lucas. I believe that is your real name, unlike the joke ‘Chris Smith’ we had on here.
I can’t believe how easily Finch and so many others fell for that! Especially Finch….. Unbelieveable. 😮
Where’s your ‘due diligence’ gone guys? ANYONE can post as ‘Chris Smith’ on this blog. As soon as I read the first few lines it was OBVIOUS this was a piss take.
‘The algorithm I invented works like this, please note these are imaginary figures’
🙂
IMAGINARY FIGURES… geddit? Whoever wrote that piece was contrsuting a satire on BB and Chris Smith. Not a very convincing one imo., but it found a GAPING HOLE In Finch’s intellect. 😮
Jeez…No wonder I found it so hard for my opinions and beliefs to be taken in context. Most of your brains operate in monochrome. SHILL or NO SHILL….. SAINT or SCAMMER….
As if the real Chris Smith would come on here, without first contacting Finch (as TS did) to ‘notarise his ID)? Of course he wouldn’t, not after the mauling his colleague recieved…..
I’m genuinely staggered that Finch took these posts seriously…the master of due diilgence and online expertise? 🙂
Is there are emoticon for *rolls eyes*, because that’s the one I want right now. :/
Although, just to be pedantic Bill:
‘Name any legitimate business in the world that charges their customers to call them for customer support?’
MANY do via expensive premium rate phone lines. Most moblie phone/internet providers charge for technical support for starters. Even the NHS and many UK government departments which are supposed to be the OUR affliates, charge us to phone them on non-standard rate tarriffs…e.g, 0845 numbers.
It all goes on the telephone bill Bill 😉
D. Pressed – What are you talking about? Where has ‘Chris Smith’ exposed himself as a hoax poster? Am I missing a confession?
The reason I’m taking this ‘Chris Smith’ at face value is because I have access to user posting information that you don’t. His email matches the exact formatting that I have already verified as belonging to Terry Stern. Could be a lucky guess, but I doubt it.
I guess we’ll find out tomorrow when Terry Stern reports back in to the office…
If this is a hoax, then obviously Terry hasn’t been fired and we’ll hear from him tomorrow.
Either way, I’m not sure what makes you think I’ve ‘fallen for it’. I asked the guy some questions and left it at that.
You’re a strange one, D. Pressed.
I guess I should be flattered that you spend so long gasbagging about me. You clearly have some kind of issue with me. Perhaps you feel victimised that I said you were full of shit. Eh, deal with it.
For what it’s worth, I find your comments mildly entertaining to read. I check them out whilst I’m sat on the toilet, trying to give a damn at your attempts to reclaim your money, listening to you spew endless paragraph after paragraph of analysis…
“Finch said that, Finch did this. Finch shows sign of this, Finch is clearly suffering from that…”
The next time I need my palms read, or my future analysed, I’ll be sure to give you a call.
Until then, have a good day.
PS. Chris Smith – If you want to verify that you are who you say you are, just send me a blank email from the Banners Broker address that you’ve used to post these comments. Send it to:
finch@finchsells.com
As soon as I have proof from the email, I’ll confirm it here.
Finch, are you trying to tell me you’re not one of the D.Pressed fan club, gosh, I mean his linguistic wizardry knows no bounds, he can meld two words together and cause great merriment. But don’t be too hard, I get the feeling he’s in his latter years and has much time on his hands due to lack of friends, his wife, should he have one, has probably never matched his intellect and is now confined to the shed. I can’t wait for his next joust with you Finch, he’ll be fuming you said his paragraphs and paragraphs or superior retorts have been reserved for toilet time. i bet he thinks your a right PRANKER. Did you see what I did there, ho ho ho…. yawn.
Hey Finch! Are you sure you’re not ‘diito ditto’ in disguise? You just come back in the same way, with the same attitudes and no answers.
I’m not going to lower myself to your level. Honestly, you do neither yourself nor your ‘industry’ any credit at all.
You’re not missing a confession, you’re missing common sense. You’ve just revealed that you don’t KNOW if it’s a hoax or not. As such you’ve not done due diligence before mouthing off. That makes you look foolish even if it is someone using a corporate e-mail. You said you have a direct line to the BB bigwigs It would be EASY for you to verify BEFORE starting a string of unanswered questions posed to someone who ended their post ‘Any questions?’.
Even if it happened to be the real Chris Smith, he’s only playing mind-fuck games. You’ll get no answers here. In any case, to announce the sacking of TS here would be so ludicrously unprofessional it’s unfeasible he has anything useful to add to the discussion. The way whoever he is descibes the ‘business model’ is just more ad-speak drivel. If it isn’t a hoax, it’s a terrible attempt at being serious by a bunch of sick jokers!
And haven’t you forgotten about the ‘blogging war’ that they openly said they wanted to engage in? If you don’t KNOW who you’re talking to from their side, then you’re just pratting about and letting them win. You’re also allowing your immense ego to get in the way of the facts. Maybe that’s why they think they have a good chance of winning that war, with only your emotional instability to cope with?
You said that you were going to report back after your private Q and A answer session with Terry. Isn’t that enough for you to be getting on with before coming back on here to insult your affiliate bloggers again? And if you were in direct contact with TS and he’s been sacked, the whole last week has been rendered pointless by your failure to get the information WE want via YOUR questions to HIM.
Look what you rudeness has done now instead…You’ve let ‘Shill Steve’ back in to score an own goal against YOU, not me.
As for ‘dealing with it’, and you, I do and I have. You’re the one with the attitude problem. As Steven Howard correctly said the other day, when people resort to abuse it usually means they’ve lost the argument. I’d say ‘always’, but let’s not get too picky. Every time you treat me in that condescending manner I KNOW I’m touching a raw nerve with you and that means you’re backed into a corner; far more scared about going to Canada, or being proven wrong, than I am about losing my measly few 100 quid in BB. 🙂 Have you booked that plane ticket yet btw? 😉
If you’d bothered loooking in my posts for ANYTHING other than your own pseudonym, you’d know I’ve given up on my money. In fact I’m in the process of closing my account with a smile on my face that that’s all I’ve lost. Have your greedy ‘nearest and dearest’ done the same? And you still haven’t answered the question as to why your closest friends and relatives didn’t ask for your ‘expert’ advice BEFORE they flushed their money down the same toilet as me? Curiouser and curiouser.
What I reckon Finch (and I don’t care what you reckon) is that you don’t want to go to Canada and get some real answers, so you’re trying to get them to conduct a dialogue in the only way you know how….via the dark, dirty corners of internet anonymity where people with big ideas and bigger attitudes dig big holes for themselves that they try to bury other people in!
The ONLY time you reply to me is when you see your name mentioned in a less than complimentary way. I ‘gassbag’ about you positively on many occassions, but your ego is so bloated that the red mist descends at the merest hint of dissent. To you this thread isn’t about BB…It’s all FINCH: “Finch said that, Finch did this. Finch shows sign of this, Finch is clearly a genius…” You’ll take the praise but crack down on critique. In that regard you’re as bad as BB in suppressing negativity that doesn’t suit your agenda. Okay, you don’t delete my posts, but you still rant and rage in a manner that is so childish as to be beneath contempt or respect. It’s like them grabbing the cash from people’s e-wallets. You do it via your virtual e-wallet of bankrupt morals.
Maybe that’s why your nearest and dearest don’t care to ask your opinion about anything? Even the pitfalls and pleasures of the industry nearest and dearest to your attitude.
The next time you need your palms read, and your future analysed, don’t worry…I already know you’ll not call.
Until then, have a good day. 😉
Please let me elaborate on what I said earlier. I seriously doubt that the real names of the criminals who set up Bannersbroker are known at this time. From all of the research I have done, Chris Smith is an alias. If it is his real name, he definitely has no financial ties to Bannersbroker and or the income that would support his being the CEO of a company earning hundreds of millions in revenue.
In addition, I stand by my statement that legitimate companies do not charge their customers for account support. Though I realize many companies charge for technical support, what out companies out there are charging people to talk to them about their accounts? More clearly stated, what company and or companies out there charge their customers and or members for answering questions about their account balances? What multimillion dollars companies propound a fake live chat on their websites? Purging their support tickets every 14 days? Fail to provide legitimate emails, phone numbers and or addresses they can be contacted at? Are you serious D. Pressed?
All opinions and suspicions set aside. The facts are incontrovertible. Bannersbroker is a criminal business with the sole purpose of burning everyone they can and walking away with a ton of money they have fraudulently obtained. Call is a Ponzi scheme, a pyramid, whatever, but the end result will be a lot of people ripped off.
BTW…That’s another ‘BLOGGER’S BROKER’ panel completed. It was a red one too! 🙂
This is just a token yellow, but every little helps. Do you use Clubcard or Nectar as your payment processor? 😉
I agree with you Bill. I’m not a BB defender in any regard. Trouble is with Finch, he thinks he’s bigger than BB and believes that in order to despise BB we must necessarily love him and his quirky affiliate marketing ways…..ways that apparantly stay on the right side of the law, but which spend a lot of time ‘sat on the toilet’ squeezing out floaters! 😉
How am I doing Steve? Am I fuming, or am I SMOKIN ? 😀
Bill…. I’ve just realised you’re the latest in a long line of people on here who take one element of a quote and extrapolate it beyond recognition. Someone called Nick suggested a few days ago that because I think him and Finch aren’t beyond reproach as internet inustrialists that therefore I must believe that Amazon, Ebay, et al are scams! Such utter nonsense and an outrageous misrepresentation.
YOU SAY: Are you serious D. Pressed?
YES BILL….BUT ONLY, IN THE CONTEXT YOU STATED, ABOUT PREMIUM RATE PHONE CALLS TO CUSTOMER SUPPORT BY MANY COMPANIES. WHICH MEANS YOUR STATEMENT IN THAT SPECIFIC REGARD IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT.
This logical correction of your error was based on you ORIGINAL STATEMENT as quoted:
‘Name any legitimate business in the world that charges their customers to call them for customer support?’
Where is the word ‘account; in there? Yet now you:’stand by my statement that legitimate companies do not charge their customers for account support.’
That was NOT your statement. I agree that account support is a different matter, but many calls to BB are not about accounts per se. and therefore customer support covers a much broader remit than accounts.
Therefore, what you’ve gone and done is extrapolate a statement you didn’t make and tried to make me seem ignorant or foolish by altering it, then suggesting that I think that ANY legitimate company does the long list of things you say…. So no Bill, OF COURSE I AM NOT SERIOUS ABOUT LEGITIMISING THOSE UNETHICAL PRACTICES BECAUSE I NEVER EVEN HINTED THAT I WAS!!
But if you hadn’t twisted your words and mine to contrive an irrational accusation, I wouldn’t have needed to answer a question by you.
Although, I’ve just completed another purple panel of precise representation, which is worth $60 to my BANNERS BLOGGER e (for entertainment) wallet.
Cheers!
🙂
I’m a member of this sham but I wouldn’t dream of trying to recruit anyone into it at this stage.
It would take a real scumbag to draw someone in now.
Mr Deano,
When you said ” i don’t believe for a second that you alone have invented an “Revolutionary Algorithm” which no one has thought off before.”
What a crazy statement to make. New algorithms, materials, medicines etc are being INVENTED all the time. One of the best ways to counteract your illogical and inaccurate statement is to point you in the direction of Sarah Flannery, who in 1998 was a SIXTEEN year old maths genius who INVENTED A NEW ALGORITHM to speed up encryption.
Mr Depressed,
I realise you’re hurting but can I suggest that you keep your posts to just a couple of paragraphs. It’s quite obvious you’re what we call “touchy” up here in Canada, a common way of replying to people like this is to say “Chill out man”.
If you’re not happy about BB, please draw your money out on the 31st and close your account.
While I’m on the subject of payments, we are having some issues with these, it’s a complex issue beyond our control.
To reassure our affiliate’s that what we operate is not a Ponzi scheme or scam, we are issuing a directive to all of our affiliate’s to stop signing new affiliate’s with immediate effect. We DO NOT rely on new signups, this will prove so beyond doubt.
I’ve emailed Finch, he will no doubt confirm this.
Bill Lucas,
You’re very much mistaken on a number of accounts, we do have phone numbers for you to contact our company on. It is not unusual for companies to charge for support, this helps us keep our monthly charges so low. Would you prefer to pay $15 a month and be charged for phone support as and when you required it, or $25 a month regardless.
The truth will come out Mr Lucas. I hope then I receive an apology from you.
The academic background of the “real Smith” is FE
– grown up with its grandma in the nany.state of Virginia, US
– sold some coke to some university-toast at age 18 and got 10 years jail-time
– made his (general) high-school AT JAIL-TIME
– been a “web-designer/ developer” for about 15-20 years
so what ?
The mechanics or algorithms of BannerBrothers are easy in RETROSPECT…like one of Picaso’s paintings. Anyone can do this. The point is: Smith done that first.
Chris, whats this about the 31st? The last I checked, payments were meant to go out on the 23rd after already being delayed from the 10th.
What is the reason for the delay? This is a legitimate reasonable question. Please answer it.
Mr bbinsider.
I’ve deliberated over what to say about this for over an hour, I’m restricted to what I can say for legal reasons. The best way I think is to describe it as an internal audit being conducted by trusted staff.
I’m confident this will be resolved quickly, in the meantime my message is to be patient, we are resolving the issue.
For the time being, I am asking people to refrain from recruiting.
Hey Finch,
Hilarious post. Almost fell off my chair.
And wonderfully written. This business model, from the very start, stunk real bad.
A.
i will be more then glad to close my account …. and if you opperate like any legitimate business you pay out what’s on that account … but nope when you close your account BB will keep everything thats on it isn’t it MR Chris …. but hell every business doe’s that when i closed my account at the bank they said to me great NP but everything in your acount is OURS now have a good day 🙂 rofl ….
so where is the new directive logged in to my account and no sign of what you mention ….
kind regards
brenie
Why won’t you give a straight answer to a straight question? What is the reason for the delays. I am owed money. Why won’t you give it to me?
On the direction to stop recruiting. Don’t be talking rubbish. You are giving the direction to stop recruiting on a blog about BB. Why won’t you do it on the official site?
@D Pressed
I am watching with awe as you write on here. Yup yet another DD platitude which is fine by me. This next bit isn’t a platitude – I really hope that you do manage to close your account. Let us know how you get on as it seems to be very very difficult. Good luck with that 😉
@Chris Smith
If you thought Terry was poor at communicating which is highly unusual for a PR man, I think you need to re-read what you’ve put here. At least Terry was nearly polite. Still not convinced about who you are, so please do verify your email with Finch. Thank you.
DD
Update: I have just received an email explanation from ‘Chris Smith’. But not from the real Chris Smith.
I’ve been asked to ‘play along’ with this being Chris Smith, but I can’t see it serving any purpose other than to spread misinformation, false expectations and to ultimately give Banners Broker members something to fire back with when it’s exposed as a hoax.
I expect Terry will be in touch today. I’ve already spotted him commenting on affiliate Facebook pages.
To the Fake Chris Smith: I know that your intentions are the same – to bring a swift end to the scam – but I think Banners Broker is taking care of that on its own accord. Delivering false information under the guise of the company’s CEO is not likely to satisfy anybody. It’s only going to antagonize and weaken the very real arguments that have already been put forward.
It can also be counter-productive. If BB decides to pay earlier than expected (Hey, it could happen someday), that can give a second wind to the scam, and the scammers.
Chris: here is a way to prove you are who you say you are. Is Friday the next time you will be doing a webinar, or will it be sooner? If so, to prove you are Chris Smith, tell us in that webinar to stop recruiting for now. Tell us in the webinar that you directed people to do so on this blog and now you are doing it through official channels. Will you do this?
I still expect you to answer why you are holding back my money. The answer you have given does not suffice.
Well D Pressed, in answer to your question, your probably FUKIN, did you see what I did there, I’m getting good at this. It seems your starting to get on everyone’s tits, I mean why use 5 words when 50 will do, and you’ve got the gall to say Finch has got an inflated ego, good God do you read your own posts. Like Chris said chill out. I’d just like to ask you one question that will complete my mental picture of you, have you ever owned an Austin Allegro
Finch: So do I take it that the payments are still meant to go out on the 23rd then?
(to fake Chris – you truly are a numpty. If you are trying to finish this program off, you really are going to wrong way about it. You have said the payments are delayed from the 23rd to the 31st. If the payments do arrive on the 23 rd the program actually gains credence and would probably draw in more people. What an idiot.)
Would not be surprised if the “Fake Chris Smith” was still working on the behalf of BB, just an attempt to discredit this site and the people posting on it. The fact that the email format was the same for terry and chris could be just guesswork but i think its more likely they are connected.
Fincht,please check in the same way if also Terry Stern is real or not
and tell us
EVERYONE.
Of course I’m not the real Chris Smith, I left plenty of cryptic clues and if you re-read my posts, did not even say I was Chris Smith from Banners Broker, all I said was “My name is Chris Smith, the man you’ve all been wanting to hear from”. Your minds did the rest.
It’s a pity Finch didn’t see the bigger picture, I could have caused some real ripples inside that company, I was trying to bring stern back to the forum, he has lots and lots of questions to answer. He will keep away now.
The WHOLE point of the excercise though was to prove to potential affiliates how EASY it is to fool even experienced people in this field.
A little bit of charm, a few well chosen words, a couple of educated guesses and some people are fooled.
Well educated, highly intelligent experienced people thought that the non existent “Chris Smith” was posting on the forum, IF you were fooled, I’m sorry, but I feel it was neccessary to PROVE to people sitting on the fence, potential new affiliates and people with money inside BB how easy it is be fooled.
It is easy to play on peoples hopes and fears, a lot of people really would like the top people in BB to answer questions, so wether they knew it or not, were pyschologically hoping it was the real Chris Smith and even if they had niggling doubts, were prepared to accept hom for what he seemed.
This is how Ponzi schemes work, the desperate people paying money in to earn unrealistic profits are blinded and fooled by their deep seated desperation for a better way of life.
BELIEVE NOTHING, INVESTIGATE EVERYTHING.
Banners Broker is a Ponzi.
Chris Smith is just a made up figurehead, the person who attended Ryerson is not “OUR” Chris Smith.
The payments have stopped, It’s unlikely they will be paid on the 23rd, but if they did I would obviously have come back on here and said “Good news everyone, we fixed the problems earlier than anticipated” or some such bull.
Of course EVERYTHING i said was total and utter rubbish, there is NO magic algorithm, there is NO ads, there is NOBODY buying traffic.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, DO NOT JOIN BB.
I hope this is a lesson to everyone how easy these slimeballs manipulate things.
“Of course I’m not the real Chris Smith, I left plenty of cryptic clues and if you re-read my posts, did not even say I was Chris Smith from Banners Broker, all I said was “My name is Chris Smith, the man you’ve all been wanting to hear from”. Your minds did the rest.”
Asshole. I don’t believe BB is legit, but I hope you are sued by them for your child-like behavior.
This blog had some credibility but after this and the ongoing mini-novels that get posted here, it’s nothing more than ammunition for more recruitment. The real CS is probably laughing his ass off right now.
Thanks for wasting my time.
I stand by my previous post.
Numpty
I didn’t feel for one minute you were the real Chris Smith.
I actually don’t think you have proven anything as it shows that the anti BB element can make shit up as well.
Gee, thanks a lot.
Phil Hendy,
You’re right, I’ve proven that it’s easy to post rubbish and that people will believe it.
bbinsider, I’ve montiored finchsells for months after a friend tried to get me to join, I didn’t, you did.
Not going to get into a slanging match, but let me ask you this, after seeing how easy it is to con people (cos thats what I did) , would you now join bb. Thought not, job done.
Chuck, I’ve not wasted your time, you now know how easy it is for someone to con you, a very important lesson learnt by YOU.
Call me an asshole, call me whatever you wish, nobody will join bb because of what I’ve done, they might have second thoughts when thye realize how easy it is to con people.
As for sueing me, Jesus, have you not learnt anything, if they have a legal team which I doubt, that would have gone after finch himself and the other bloggers.
Just remember aswell, I never said I was chris smith from banners broker, you just thought i was.
I agree with you Phil bbinsider steve and chuck, another time waster and troll.
Look back at what I posted, dipshit. One of the first things I told you was to prove you were CS by sending an email from the bannersbroker domain. After that, Finch said the same thing – then your little farce unraveled. How is that “conning” me, and what lesson was learned? You’re a condescending fuckwit, but I’m sure I’m not the first person who has clued you in to that.
The only “lesson learnt” is that an anti-BB zealot can be as big of a prickbag as a BB zealot.
Enjoy your blogging. I’m done with this site. I’m sure Terry Stern will be back again to toy with you, soon.
I would appreciate it if people would stop giving this ‘Chris Smith’ person creedence as though they actually had any involvement with the company.
Further to this, since we’ve established that the identity of this person is not the Chris Smith of BBI, in an effort to deny this person access to damage the reputation, or cause further confusion, I am requesting that Finch please address this issue.
I am almost finished writing my responses to the questions Martin has asked, but you are right in stating that this type of foolishness isn’t going to help the integrity of the blog if it’s left unchecked.
Thank You.
To whomever: I joined this blog less than 24 hours. If you have read my posts, please be reminded that I told you that Chris Smith is an Alias, he does not exist. The criminals behind Banners Broker are not stupid enough to give their real names nor will you find them blogging anywhere. There are so many layers of dupes in the Banners Broker system the the Feds will spend years trying to sort it out. This morning I noticed that the main website has added some more bogus contact information and some new links to email them. They have changed the script in the chat window to combat what I already reported about it. What does this all mean? Bannersbroker is feeling the heat from people angry over not getting their money, yet they anticipated this upon the inception of their criminal plot. Again, these criminals were smart enough to put this whole scam together and insulate themselves from prosecution. What they are doing now is grabbing whatever crumbs are left and creating a massive smoke screen to delay their shutdown.
What do we do now? We really only have two options. One, we can take our losses and learn from our own greed or, two, we can put excessive pressure on the Feds to track these criminals down. They have made some stupid mistakes that even with all the dupes they put in between themselves and prosecution that could lead to their capture. One of their biggest mistakes was to use Godaddy to host their website. Even with bogus proxies to hide behind, their administration of the website itself, can be traced past the initial dupes who have been set up to take the fall. In addition, I highly encourage everyone to scream at Vector Card Services and their other payment services for their part in helping these criminals scam them. I intend to file a class action lawsuit against Vector Card services. Though the suit may never be won the negative publicity and court costs will likely lead them to go after the criminals themselves. They have ways of following the money trail that the Feds may never explore. I also encourage everyone to negatively blog these criminals everywhere. If you keep shaking the bushes you never know what scumbag varmint might come crawling out of the sewer these criminals waller in.
People, we have to be smarter than these scum bags. We cannot allow ourselves to get caught in left field while they escape in right field. If they had not kept us in left field, they would of never been able to scam us to begin with. They are continuing to keep us in left field by their false propaganda and smoke screens. I doubt very seriously that the person claiming to be Chris Smith on this blog is a BB hater. I do not believe one word he says. What he has done is to continue to focus people on a fictional person (name) that has absolutely nothing to do with Banners Broker. Regardless of who has shown up on their world tours. Regardless of the names that have been given to people. Please remember that scammers do not publicize their real identities. The criminals who put this whole scam together knew from day one that it would run its course and that the law and others would come looking for them. Part of their plan was to leave a ton of false information and propaganda in their wakes to cover their exits. You only serve to help the people who have ripped you off by giving publication to their false propaganda.
Everyone must ask themselves what do you do when someone has robbed you? Remember something very important about this scam, these criminals targeted people of lower to middle incomes. Why? Because rich people have the financial resources to find criminal scum like the people who put together this scam. That said, if you don’t have the financial resources yourself to track these scumbags down, then you need to motivate those who do. The Feds, Vector Card Searvices, Payza and Solid Trust Pay can find these pieces of human garbage. They just need to be properly motivated.
A great suggestion. Start negative blogs concerning Vector Card Service, Payza and Solid Trust Pay. Let the world know that these companies knowingly do business with criminals and could care less about their card and account holders. In every respect, these companies are as guilty as the criminal scumbags that created Bannersbroker.
A note to you scumbags I have repeatedly mentioned. I can only stand back and laugh at you. Though your overall scam / plan was better than most, your execution was very sloppy. You used a medium to perpetrate your fraud that you truly believe you are very well educated in. You created layers of dupes, yet you are truly ignorant of the many people who are deeply entrenched in the playground you chose to exploit. There is nothing worse than crapping in a nerds back yard. It is idiots like you who will eventually cause strict regulation of the world wide web. Yes, your accounts are full of your stolen money, but remember those accounts are buried in our back yard. You stench and foot prints, though many, stand out like a sore thumb in our grass. As you pissed on our flowers and disturbed out peace, we tolerated you for our own reasons, but do not ever be so stupid as to believe, we don’t know who you are and how to find you. I have been asleep for quite some time now. You have woke me up and I an very unhappy with you. As you already know, you never took a penny from me. I / we have been watching you for quite some time now. Your own geek as probably already told you the same. Regardless, if you ever wake up, remember the golden rule, you can piss all over the place, but eventually your going to piss in the wrong place.
I shall keep this brief, but necessarily contextual:
I was completely correct! 🙂 That’s because I’m the ONLY person posting on this forum who reads and reads and writes with precision and logic based on the broader issues of the internet as a breeding ground for deceit. It’s not my fault that NONE of you can be bothered to read my posts with the same level of intelligence and balance that I present them. And well done ‘Chris’ for proving my point so expertly. 🙂
It’s amusing that Phil Hendy has suddenly turned up to say he knew all along that we had a fake Chris Smith. AFTER the confession. Your comment is worthless. I was the ONLY person who could tell, immediately, from the manner and the expression of ‘Chris Smith’ that he wasn’t remotely plausibe. And stated it load, long and clear.
The joke is on ALL OF YOU who were taken in. Desperate people wanting to believe the ‘affliate dream’, never mind live it. Not just the BB dream, but the notion that Finch is any more than a man child acting the big ‘I am’.
I deserve an apology from several of you, including Finch. I don’t NEED it though because I have proved beyond doubt that however gullible I was to join BB, I’m nowhere near as gullible as any one of most of
In any case, this blog is becoming irrelevant. The place to confront BB is in the real world. Not on in this virtual world, where I said WEEKS ago that anyone can pretend to be who they want on the net. And THAT is why everyone needs to be wary of kids trying to groom adults into buying their crap words and their crap products!
I suspect that’s why Finch needs to take his laptop into the toilet. 😉
I am now 100% confident that D. Pressed is nothing but a plant by BB to bring about confusion and mistrust of everything here. I believe this as NO ONE who genuinely lost money to a scam like this is going to come on the same blog that is used to expose it and call other people fools.
If we ignore the troll he will disappear.
@Bill Lucas,
I sure hope you have some proof to back up those words of yours? Can you please state who the criminals really are here? The people doing what they claim to be doing, or the people making baseless accusations and assumptions against them?
Our offices are open to you, bring the press and the authorities along with your ‘proof’ and let’s see if you’re as confident in your position as you claim to be, or whether you’re another person with an ‘agenda’ and actually have no ammunition the gun you claim to be holding. While you’re here you can meet Mr. Chris Smith, Mr. Raj Dixit, Mr. David Hooker and myself to see if we’re really as ‘mysterious’ or fictional as you claim.
Who’s really the person with something to hide here? We’ve been as open and up-front as we can be, and I’ve even used my real name.
I’ve submitted the answers to the questions Martin has sent me, so you should be seeing those answers shortly.
I find it interesting that in light of announcing my responses will soon be posted, people are already trying to discredit them without knowing what they are.
My agenda is to clear BBI’s name by bringing the truth to light. There can’t be two truths, so what’s yours?
Nick your comments are both intelligent and informative. I have spent a prodigious amount of time reading all the posts on this blog. I laud you, Nick and all of the people here who have promulgated their concerns, opinions, facts and questions. I disagree with D. Pressed in his previous statement that we do not need to confront the criminals of Bannersbroker in the virtual world. The virtual world is where Bannersbroker launched there war against many people who for whatever reasons that may have befallen them, were ripe to be exploited by the criminal acts of the BB scumbags.
I am sorry if any of you who have been victimized by the unscrupulous criminal acts of the three people who put the Bannersbroker scam together, take offense at my stating that you were exploited for whatever reasons you may have found yourselves in. The sad truth about the Bannersbroker scam is that even to someone with no knowledge of marketing and or advertising, the illegitimacy of Bannersbroker as a legitimate business is highly evident for anyone to see. Please let me expound that subject more thoroughly. Unfortunately, when people are losing their jobs by the hundreds of thousands and living with an economy on the brink of collapse, we sometimes will take chances that in better times we would not take. Several years ago, I was contacted by a gentleman in England who inquired of me as to why I was selling a very expensive item under two user names on eBay with a very large difference in price between the two listings. A person over in England actually copied my eBay listing and offered my $60,000 dollar item for $18,000.00 dollars. I simply told the man who called me that no one in their right mind would sell something worth $60K for $18k unless there was a scam involved. Regardless of my assurances to this man that I was not in England and that the person who was trying to sell my item under another user name did not have any right to do so, the man ignored me and sent $18k to the criminal in England who scammed him. Several months later the man called me again and told me how he had lost his money and how he had wished he had listened to me. At that time I told him that his first call to me was unnecessary because if he had just used his own common sense he would of realized that he was being scammed.
I mentioned the foregoing incident so that people can understand that Bannersbroker did the exact same thing as the scam artist in England did. Bannersbroker showed people millions of dollars they did not have. They propose to people that they can double their money with absolutely no risk to them. They falsely tell people that they can back out within the first 30 days without losing a penny. In other words they tell people who are looking for a financial miracle exactly what they want to hear. Just as in the case with the guy who sent his $18k to a scammer in England, sometimes people ignore their own common sense and allow their greed to rule the day.
If nothing else comes from this post, a man who calls himself finch took the time to post a blog to expose the criminal activity of the people who run Bannersbroker. Finch has been insulted by many, had his time wasted by impostors and in all the posts I have read here, been thanked very little for his efforts. Finch has published a wake up call to those who are unfortunately in the Bannersbroker scam, those who may be considering joining the same, for the criminals who are still at large working the scam and to the authorities who may be reading this. Finch deserves our respect for speaking up and taking the time to unselfishly try to help people. D. Pressed for the most part appears to be a person who enjoys the promulgation of antagonism. He or she appears to be a person who has very little friends and chooses to spend his or her time writing antagonizing posts on high interest blogs. D. Pressed should feel remorse for promulgating his or her antagonism on a blog where people are seeking information to minimize their losses with Bannersbroker. This blog was not intended as a place for people who are desperately lonely, looking for any kind of attention they can get, rather positive or negative, to screw around. This blog is for people who have been duped by the criminals running Bannersbroker. Please Mr. or Mrs. Pressed, buy yourself a dog or a cat, if your lonely. Please go find some other blog to attack people who may welcome your perversity. I came here to share information with others who have been duped by Bannersbroker in an attempt to help them and a very close friend of mine who was severely duped.
Mr Dpressed is right, he told you straight away I was not the real Chris Smith.
THERE ALMOST CERTAINLY IS NO CHRIS SMITH.
DIXIT COULD BE THE MAIN MAN, OR IT COULD BE SOMEONE YOU’VE NEVER EVEN HEARD OF.
Terry Stern, WOW, BB asking for protection. Finch don’t fall for it, if he’s asking for this some damage has been caused.
Just remember everything he writes on here will have been authorized by his bosses, even the uni he went to, it’s ALL lies and bullshit, I’ve just proven how EASY it is to fool people, these people do it for a living, DO NOT BE TAKEN IN BY HIM.
So far you’ve all done a good job of exposing this scam, but your hands are tied by the very fact you have morals. Sometimes you have to think like the liars and cheats and turn the tables on them.
This could have gone on for days, I emailed finch to let him know what I had done, without me owning up you would still have been wondering.
To Dpressed,
You did spot it was all a load of bullshit, I left lots and lots of small clues, even saying “Ive been thinking of this for an hour”, when the post I was referring to was only made 30 minutes before.
Come on guys, these are professional conmen, wise up.
Finch, Dpressed, bbinsider, steve, chuck and EVERYONE else whos anti BB you’re all good guys, please stop the infighting though and concentrate on ending this ponzi scheme.
I’m leaving now, but I hope some of you learnt a lesson, I’ll only come back when BB blows up which will hopefully be very soon.
Raj, they’re coming for you. Sleepless nights.
Terry: Why won’t BB pay me what I am due?
Fake chris smith, that big black guy in Ireland must have been Mr T. Thanks for saving us all, you’re the best.
Nick, though I agree with a lot of what you and Finch post here, I do however disagree with you that D. Pressed most likely is a ‘plant’ from Bannersbroker. Though you have done a great job here, I seriously doubt that anyone who has posted comments on this blog are part of the canriminal element that is running Bannersbroker. If they have, they are more stupid than I have given them credit for.
Nick, the criminals running Bannersbroker are very experienced scam artists. The Bannersbroker scam has a lot of elements of shear criminal genius behind it. They basically took a function of internet advertising and marketing, and put themselves in a market channel that the average person has no clue how it functions. Please don’t misunderstand me, I do not laud these criminals actions, but it hard not to stand back in awe over the mechanics of it. The Bannersbroker scam creates things I have personally never seen work as well as it does with their scam. Specifically, the Bannersbroker scam actually creates its own false propaganda through its unknowing members. In addition, it leaves many of its members in the position that complaining to law enforcement would lead them to believe they were filing there own criminal confession rather than a complaint. The bi-product of the same creates layers and layers of dupes shielding from prosecution, the real criminals behind it. Finally, I have never seen a scam of this magnitude before that was so inexpensive to facilitate. The Bannersbroker scam most likely cost less than $1,000 dollars to launch from the first week on, has funded its own overhead.
Nick, I seriously doubt that the criminals who started Bannersbroker have done anything more than bank their illegal profits from the day after they launched their scam. The scam itself recruits scam artists. The foundation of the scam allows for all kinds of nonsense, but prohibits the scam artists they bring in from going outside the foundation of the scam. Yet, be assured that many of the scams smoke screens were created by these scam artists to keep the scam alive. The only thing that keeps their scam from being the perfect crime is that they could not do it without the help of banks and the internet. Their downfall will be their arrogance in believing that the banks they have dealt with have not been investigating them from the first week of their launch. 9/11 changed the world, not only with fear but in powerful people having to cover their proverbial asses. Though money can be wired from one place to another, with very little evidence of same left for the authorities to chase, banks know exactly where it has gone and to whom it has gone. Banks and countries that use to be very tight lipped to the authorities, now provide more information than their customers would ever expect. It is no joke when they say, big brother is watching.
Does anyone out there know where the Mason Dixon line of this scam fell? In other words, at what investment amount has separated the winners from the losers? I realize there is still some bottom feeding going on but is highly obvious that the top players have headed for the hills with their loot.
Bill Lucas, your just as full of hypothetical shite as D Pressed, you just assume assume assume. I couldn’t give a toss if BB is a scam, but go and do some proper investigations, PROOF we need.
You want proof its a scam. They won’t give me my money.
Bill, if you would like to question one of the leaders who’s ran for the hills, he’s here tomorrow, NEW MEETING
LINCOLN
23rd JANUARY 7.30pm for a prompt 8.00pm start
Plough Inn
53 High Street
Walcott
Lincoln
Lincolnshire
LN4 3SW
£5 per ticket refundable on the evening
Free buffet
Great prizes to be won & Quiz
Contact for tickets: Jason on 07923 602425
PRESENTER IAN DRISCOLL
Steve you asked for proof, please consider the following:
In past 57 days BB has failed to pay out any requests for withdraws from their members.
Bannersbroker is hosted from Godaddy web hosting. What legitimate financial company in the world uses a webhosting company to maintain their customers financial information?
What verifiable product and or service does Bannersbroker sell?
If the members of Bannersbroker cannot contact them, how could their alleged clients contat them?
Simple economics Steve, Bannersbroker claims to pay out $150m dollars annually to their members, claiming to double their investments. To do so, Bannersbroker would have to sell $300m a year of their services and or products to break even. What company in the world making $300m annually, has no information available whatsoever to the general public out who their corporate officers are?
What $300m a year company in this world does not have their own offices and employees working for them. By Bannersbroker own admission, they use a third party company to communicate with the general public. They do not have a brick and mortar building anywhere.
What $300m a year company operates in such secrecy that they don’t advertise on the radio and or television? Are you so stupid that you cannot understand that any legitimate company looking for a large amount of members, would use those mediums if they were not a scam.
Steve, please read all of my posts and be more specific when you accuse me of my stating opinions not facts. I have done nothing but call peoples attention to the obvious.
Steve, the person or persons coming to your area tomorrow are not the criminals who came up with Bannersbroker, They are a bi-product of the scam. If you want facts to support said claim simply contact the Securities and Exchange Commission and ask for a copy of Bannersbroker SEC filings in the United States that they are required to file. For a bigger laugh, contact the Clark County Court House, County Clerk, for Las Vegas, Nevada and inquire in to the nonexistent Bannersbroker DBA for their technical support office in Vegas.
Do you really believe that a multimillion dollar business would not file the proper government forms to do business in the USA?
If you do attend that meeting why don’t you ask some pressing questions from us all, as follows:
1. Where is our money?
2. Why are you continuing to jerk us all off with lies?
3. Who are the officers and or owners of Bannersbroker?
@BBinsider,
Can you please explain what you mean when you say, “They won’t give me my money.”?
@Steve,
The meeting you’ve specified has nothing to do with Banners Broker, because the affiliate has seriously contravened the policies and procedures of Banners Broker International and is forbidden to hold meetings.
@Bill Lucas,
Once again, if you would like to bring the press, the authorities and your proof by our offices we would love to see you. I’m sure everyone in fact would love to know if you have anything of substance to address, or whether you’re just another with an agenda to stir up trouble with nothing to back you up. I for one look forward to it.
I’ll even introduce you to the people you say don’t exist and we can have a coffee together as you try to explain yourself to the people you’ve brought with you.
Thank You.
Two questions specifically to you Steve, if you could give a ‘toss’ rather Bannersbroker is a scam or not, why are you posting on a blog promulgating that Bannersbroker is a scam?
Why are you paying any attention whatsoever to Bannersbroker if you could give a toss about rather there so called business is a scam or not?
I have been waiting for payment since before Xmas. I was told that I would get my money on the 10/11th of January. This didn’t happen. It is now nearly 2 weeks later. Still nothing.
WHY?
Also, my panels are getting slower and slower.
WHY?
Because Bill, I already have two successful businesses so if it goes tits up tomorrow so be it, it will not alter my life. Obviously Bill I’m an Affiliate with BB and am earning with them, I can say hand on heart I’ve never had a problem, sometimes it’s been a bit slow getting paid and sometimes the panels are a bit slow completing but they’ve always come good.
@Bill Lucas,
You’re making my job easy now.
In past 57 days BB has failed to pay out any requests for withdraws from their members.
– You sir are incorrect. We pay out 90%+ of our members at regular intervals depending on the method they’ve chosen. I don’t know where you got your ‘facts’ from, but they’re completely wrong.
Bannersbroker is hosted from Godaddy web hosting. What legitimate financial company in the world uses a webhosting company to maintain their customers financial information?
– This is another example of someone trying to create issues from thin air. At what point has either BBI or I stated the company was a financial company?
First we were an advertising company, now we’re a financial company. This is how rumors get started that cause company’s problems. Complete fabrications being taken as ‘fact’.
As far as our servers go, do you have access to Godaddy’s client list and can factually show there are no large-scale companies doing business or hosting their sites with Godaddy? Another irrelevant distraction meant to look like a fact.
What verifiable product and or service does Bannersbroker sell?
– Apparently you haven’t done your research. BBI sells ad space and impressions which they purchase in bulk from the brokers they do business with. This is a perfect example of someone who doesn’t pay attention and is just looking to stir up troube.
If the members of Bannersbroker cannot contact them, how could their alleged clients contat them?
– Once again incorrect. Our affilates can contact the company easily enough, as can the general public. Have you even tried? BBI offers live chat, support tickets and phone support.
Simple economics Steve, Bannersbroker claims to pay out $150m dollars annually to their members, claiming to double their investments.
– Stop. BBI makes no claims to “double their investments”. It does say that an affiliate can earn twice the value of their initial inventory purchase price upon completion of the first two complimentary cycles. The word can implies there’s a choice involved that affects the outcome, not an automatic process.
To do so, Bannersbroker would have to sell $300m a year of their services and or products to break even. What company in the world making $300m annually, has no information available whatsoever to the general public out who their corporate officers are?
– I have already admitted that there were oversights when the company created its web presence and the language it used. I’ve also stated this is why the international compliance and public relations departments were created, and that we are currently implementing changes to address those mistakes.
What $300m a year company in this world does not have their own offices and employees working for them. By Bannersbroker own admission, they use a third party company to communicate with the general public. They do not have a brick and mortar building anywhere.
– What’s been said is, that BBI has contracted Stellar Point to act as their Support, Training and Marketing arm internationally, and to correct the mistakes originally made when launching the company. There are plenty of companies that don’t have brick-n-mortar facilities. If you were knowledgeable about the business world, you’d know that it’s common place. Another distraction.
What $300m a year company operates in such secrecy that they don’t advertise on the radio and or television? Are you so stupid that you cannot understand that any legitimate company looking for a large amount of members, would use those mediums if they were not a scam.
– I don’t remember ever seeing ads for Google’s Adsense or Adwords programs on the TV or radio. I also don’t recall seeing Facebook’s advertisements about their program either, and both do tens-of-Billions in ad revenue each year. Another distraction.
The only obvious fact here, is that you’re not one for doing your homework, that you pride yourself on spouting off unsubtantiated allegations about a company you know nothing about. So who exactly is trying to scam who here?
@BBinsider,
What method of payment did you choose?
Payments were released on the 11th as specified, however, how long it takes depends on your financial institution and the payment method you selected.
If you had used a BB Card, you would already have received your payment, as card loads are the quickest method of payment, and will soon be the only option other than eWallet. The reason? To cut down on the time it takes to get people paid around the world from these processors.
STP. Stop blaming everyone else.
What time period did BB say payments would be made for standard and premium accounts?
Terry Stern
My payment as been pending for 21 days and i have a banners broker card , where is my money they promised it would take 14 days and dont tell me to raise a ticket or contact support because thats a waste of time , i must be part of the 10% who havn`t been payed , i think that 90% plus bb suckers get paid at regular intervals is a bold statement
@BBinsider,
BBI has only ever said that payments would be released on a specific date, not when you would actually receive the funds. If you requested through STP, I would be contacting STP to find out where the payment is because the funds were released to them already. Last time I checked, payments through STP can take up-to 2 weeks.
Thank You.
So its STP’s fault. Change the record.
Terry, though I am one hundred percent sure you are not an officer of Bannerbroker, I will play along with you for the moment. Please provide me with an address that is actually leased and or owned by Bannersbroker, and I will be more than happy to come see you folks. As for criminal prosecution,as you are well aware of, I don’t have that power.
Terry, or whatever your name is, you have been repeatedly asked to prove that you have any affiliation with Bannersbroker whatsoever. A simple email would at least prove you have access to the Godaddy mail server for Bannersbroker. Yet, all you do is continue to post and ignore the requests for validation of who you claim to be.
I have some interesting questions for you. Why does Bannersbroker host their website with Godaddy? Why is their absolutely no record of Bannersbroker having credit with any business in the world? Your company does not buy or lease office equipment? Your company entrusts sensitive member financial information to a company who provides webhosting for $8.00 a month? Why did both eBay and Paypal suspend all of your accounts? Why does Dunn and Brad have absolutely no information about your company whatsoever?
Finally, if Bannersbroker is a legitimate company, why are you and or anyone else responding to this blog?
@Terry Stern
Hi Terry. In the UK we have a TV programme called Dragons’ Den. It involves a business person asking the “dragons” (a group of multi-millionaires) for an investment in the business person’s enterprise, in return for the Dragons getting a percentage of the enterprise’s future profits. The percentage negotiated usually ranges from 25% to 50%.
In exchange for that percentage, the Dragons give their ongoing expertise, in terms of marketing, advice, introduction to contacts, guidance and time.
Essentially, the Dragons invest their money for an average 37.5% IN RETURN for their time, their expertise, their contacts, their experience, and the RISK that all this (plus ALL their financial investment!) could go down the pan.
Compare this to BB, who offer to DOUBLE your initial money … but in return you take no risk, you give no time (apart from a few mouse clicks) and you give no expertise. In fact, you do NOTHING for your money.
Well sorry, but there’s no such thing as a one-sided deal. In the REAL world, money is exchanged for something of equal value. There is, of course, one exception. That exception is a Ponzi scheme, where entrants to the scheme are paid from the money of later entrants.
Which works well … until the supply of new entrants begins to dry up.
So here’s the question, Terry. WHY DOES BB NEED AFFILIATES?
Finchman ! What are these fuckin “Finchsells” cockies good for?
Terry,
I appreciate your response as I have not had such a good laugh in many of years. Please let me start by stating that Bannersbrokers acts as a broker. Your company does not claim to broker thin air. Your company claims to be an adverting broker for profit, therefore, in every since of the word, your company can also be considered a financial company. Regardless of what your company considers itself, your ultimate goal is to rip people off.
I am so amused as to your selective answering some questions and blowing off the ones you can be immediately outright caught in your lies. For instance, you claimed that you released funds to STP, but you ignored the questions concerning the prepaid cards through Vector. Are we to believe that you just coincidentally decided to fund STP and chose to hold off on funding people through Vector? Additionally, you simply state that it was an ‘oversight’ by the founders of Bannersbroker to omit contact and officer information about the company and that now after almost three years in business you have hired Stellar Point to correct these minor oversights? Are you a moron? Do you think everyone in this world is as stupid as you are?
Lets talk a little about Stellar Point. They were formed in August of 2012. For all intensive purposes to anyone researching them, the company has no other clients than Bannersbroker. With all the millions of dollars Bannersbroker claims to make, your company has chosen a company with no verifiable background and or experience of providing the services and support they claim to provide. Could it be, that no legitimate and well known marketing company would have anything to do with Bannersbroker? Could it be that the same criminals who started Bannersbroker are the same assholes who created another bogus company called Stellar Point?
You also claim that many legitimate businesses with over $300m in sales every year, operate without any brick and mortar addresses? Please name a few. Google and Facebook are all over the media. You hear about them on radio, you hear about them on television and you definitely read about them in the newspapers. Most importantly, well respected fortune 100 companies have not problem recommending them and or associating themselves with them whatsoever. Name on well respected company is this world that has no problem associating themselves with Bannersbroker, you stupid dickhead. Where else but the internet, do you hear anything about Bannersbreakitoffinyourass? Listen here you stupid moron, all you are doing is posting more BS for Bannersbroker. You are offering people false hopes of payments we both know are not forth coming. No matter what crap your stupid brain comes up with to shovel to those looking for any glimmer of hope, the facts remain what they are. There is two facts you cannot lie your way out of. One, no legitimate multimillion dollar business starts up and or operates the way you clowns did and are. Finally, lie all you want but there are literally thousands of Bannersbrokers members out their screaming their heads off about not being paid in the last 58 days for withdraw requests they have submitted. How do I know this? Simple hit records of people searching for sights like this one. Personal friends with thousands of dollars wrapped up in your scam, that have not been paid as agreed.
Want some more dick head? Why did your company choose now to update your website with bogus contact information and links that are absolutely useless? Could the heat be on? Your not responding to 10% of your dissatisfied members. The numbers, as we both know, are much much higher. Bannersbroker is just bottom feeding right now. If you are involved with them, all your doing is trying to pick up whatever scraps are left over. The big boys have high tailed it. All you can do now is feed off the remnants while you promulgate more and more BS to keep the thing alive as long as you can. Finally, you mentioned phone support, online chat and support tickets. Do you not know how to read? Are you so stupid that your mama doesn’t even claim you? There is a not a person familiar with Bannersbroker that does not know that phone support is a joke, online chats do not exist and support tickets are a complete waste of time because after your initial auto-response acknowledging receipt of the ticket, that is as far as that support goes.
Let me ask you one more question dick head. What kind of company purges their members unanswered support tickets every fourteen days and informs their members that any requests to close their accounts will be subject to an outright forfeit of their profits and any unpaid liquidation requests? WTF? Cat got your tongue. Let me answer it. A criminal company jerking people off to by some time to steal more money.
Finally, we can go around and around until hell freezes over because you can keep posting false hope and pray you can jerk people off a little longer, but when it comes to answering questions you can be immediately verified, you choose to remain silent.
Terry,
One question. Simple yes or no answer. Is it possible for every affiliate to make a profit?
Hi Depressed
In respect of this comment
“It’s amusing that Phil Hendy has suddenly turned up to say he knew all along that we had a fake Chris Smith. AFTER the confession. Your comment is worthless. I was the ONLY person who could tell, immediately, from the manner and the expression of ‘Chris Smith’ that he wasn’t remotely plausibe. And stated it load, long and clear.”
I would note that I pointed out on Realscam straight away that I didn’t think it was the real Chris Smith. I find it difficult to post on here from my phone which is what I am usually browsing it on during the evening.
are people really arguing over whether they were right about Chris?
…Seriously guys, get a life…
LET ME STATE THIS AGAIN FOLKS:
THE IDIOTS CLAIMING TO BE BANNERSBROKER OFFICERS / EMPLOYEES ARE LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH. I AM SORRY I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW I KNOW THAT FOR A FACT, I CAN ONLY TELL YOU THAT I KNOW IT FOR A FACT THAT CHRIS AND TERRY ARE USING THE SAME COMPUTER OUT OF THE SAME HOUSE AND THAT NO ONE WHO LIVES IN SAID HOME IS IS RECORDED HAS HAVING EITHER OF THOSE NAMES.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO KNOW ME, YOU KNOW WHO I AM AND WHAT I CAN DO, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON’T KNOW ME, YOU WILL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL IT WONT HURT OTHERS EFFORTS TO PROVIDE YOU PROOF!
Anyone that knows anything about business, in any country, online or brick-and-mortar, would know that a real business can be checked and verified.
If it’s true that “eBay and Paypal suspended” BB’s accounts then that’s a bad sign. This has only ever happened to WikiLeaks as far as I know.
If “Dunn and Brad have absolutely no information” then that’s even more worrying because D&B are the worldwide custodian of intelligence on businesses.
“If you had used a BB Card, you would already have received your payment, as card loads are the quickest method of payment, and will soon be the only option other than eWallet. The reason? To cut down on the time it takes to get people paid around the world from these processors.”
translation:
“If you had used a BB Card, you would already have received your payment, as card loads are the quickest method of payment, and will soon be the only option other than eWallet. The reason? To cut down on the time it takes to get people’spanels terminated around the world from these processors.”
Bill Lucas, why should we believe you any more than believing Terry?
People, do not miss the point. Terry’s so goal is to promote false hope and jerk people off. As I repeatedly stated, the criminals that started and ran Bannersbroker have high tailed it. What is left, is bottom feeders hoping to profit off the remnants. There is nothing remotely even close to nonsense these frauds are saying on the Bannersbroker website. It does not take a long time for the tech people at Bannersbroker to send out a mass email to all of their members, yet no such email has gone out. They ran their scam until they couldn’t bring in enough new people to keep it going and or make it worth while. Please give up the false hopes and start screaming for your losses to whomever can take action against them. That is you only one and a billion shot of ever seeing any of your money back. As for a profit, you have about as good of a chance of seeing that as being elected to take Obama’s job.
Bill, watch your blood pressure mate, you’ll be havin a heart attack.